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The original was posted on /r/armenia by /u/ar_david_hh on 2023-08-10 23:36:15+00:00.
6 minutes
REPORTER: Will the government of Armenia request a UN Security Council session to discuss the blockade of Nagorno-Karabakh by Azerbaijan?
MARUKYAN: Extensive preparatory work is underway to ensure a positive outcome at the UNSC because we don't want to miss our one shot. There will be a public statement when things are ready.
REPORTER: Critics argue that even if the UNSC adopts a resolution, Azerbaijan will ignore it as it has been done in the past.
MARUKYAN: The public should tame the expectations. The UNSC is an important tool that cannot be used prematurely, but the time is becoming ripe.
... lobbying
REPORTER: What work is currently underway with the 5 permanent and the non-permanent members of the UNSC? Last time there were reports that 1 or 2 permanent members had an anti-Armenian stance. There were accusations against Russia and UK. What's the situation today?
MARUKYAN: That's why efforts are underway to ensure nobody hinders the process. But this time the process is different because we are aiming for a "resolution" to pass on the Lachin Corridor. This is not what was attempted previously.
We need a certain number of votes to succeed. This is what we're working on today. Azerbaijan is engaged in a counter-lobby. It's not as easy as simply contacting the UNSC to hold a vote, as some "experts" have suggested.
... it's not given
REPORTER: Some believe that the UNSC will have no choice but to adopt a pro-Armenian resolution because there is a verdict by the World Court.
MARUKYAN: That's a primitive view because:
- There is no final verdict by the World Court yet. They have only issued an interim ruling, which is also very useful. The final verdict, which could take years to arrive, can differ from the interim.
Others are confusing the International Criminal Court and its prior verdicts with the International Court of Justice (World Court).
- The UNSC is a political body.
... could Azerbaijan ignore the resolution?
REPORTER: Let's say the UNSC adopts a resolution to reopen the Lachin Corridor immediately. But the same UNSC had earlier adopted 4 resolutions instructing ethnic Armenian forces to leave Karabakh territories. However, each side interpreted those resolutions in a way beneficial to them and nothing was done on the ground. How do we know the Lachin resolution would be any different?
MARUKYAN: That's what the Azeri expert circles say today but keep in mind that the pro-Azeri resolutions were still very helpful for them because they allowed Azerbaijan to build a favorable strategy for decades. Their entire narrative was based on those resolutions.
If we have a pro-Armenian resolution on Lachin Corridor now, we must continue the diplomatic work with that powerful legal tool in our hands. A UNSC resolution would be a lot more powerful than an interim ruling by the World Court.
But it'll be difficult to secure a resolution because UNSC is a political body guided by geopolitics. The members' interests must match to have a favorable outcome.
If you've paid attention to the list of phone conversations held by MFA Mirzoyan, a heavy effort is underway to reach out to the UNSC states.
... friends and foes
REPORTER: Which UNSC country is helping Armenia with this process?
MARUKYAN: It'll be a mistake to name a country now. In the end, the public will see each country's stance because this process, unlike previous processes, will be public.
... Holodomor
REPORTER: Nagorno-Karabakh has been under a blockade for 8 months, and under a total blockade for 2 months. The residents are fainting while waiting in long lines for hours to buy bread. Azerbaijan is blocking the humanitarian trucks sent by Armenia.
International experts have concluded that this is a genocidal policy, people can starve to death. What is the solution?
MARUKYAN: We're using every possible mechanism in search of a solution, and I've already explained the UNSC process. As for the
analysis by the former International Criminal Court prosecutor Luis Moreno Ocampo [Analysis conclusion: Azerbaijan is preparing genocide against ethnic Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh], is very important because international law is influenced and formed including by the opinions of famous legal experts.
This is a flashing red light for Ilham Aliyev's administration: Your actions can have consequences.
REPORTER: Luis Moreno Ocampo's report was prepared upon request by the Nagorno-Karabakh government.
MARUKYAN: Because it's an informal process. It's great that we have that analysis. The international press has picked up on that. This is important. We are somewhat unlucky because the world is on vacation, Washington is away, and Brussels is completely closed.
REPORTER: Could Azerbaijan take advantage of that and attack Nagorno-Karabakh?
MARUKYAN: It can't be ruled out but Azerbaijan will face difficulties here because the world is already flashing a red light because of the humanitarian crisis and Azerbaijan's use of famine as a weapon.
... negotiations, rights, territorial integrity
REPORTER: Governments of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh want negotiations between Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh under the presence of a mediator. On the other hand, Samvel Babayan wants to launch direct negotiations without a mediator now, without waiting, because he is confident Azerbaijan will never agree to an international mechanism. Could Samvel Babayan's proposal lead to a solution?
MARUKYAN: Armenian Government wants the negotiations to be internationally visible, with an international presence. Otherwise, there are no guarantees Azerbaijan won't arrest the members of the Nagorno-Karabakh diplomatic envoy. Also, will Nagorno-Karabakh be allowed to present its stance, or will they have to go and just listen to Azerbaijan's demands that they've been making publicly? These negotiations must be about Nagorno-Karabakh's rights and security, which is a red line for Armenia.
Armenian Government has made "unpopular" proposals, such as the willingness to recognize Nagorno-Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan, but what the critics ignore is that the proposal came with preconditions. So far only political statements have been made and no documents have been signed. The last AM-AZ document was signed on 9 Nov 2020.
Armenia agrees to recognize the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan if the latter recognizes Armenia's territorial integrity, while the rights and security of the Nagorno-Karabakh people must be discussed under an international mechanism separately. It's all part of one package.
Armenian Government has taken a constructive stance, whereas Ilham Aliyev still refuses to agree to recognize Armenia's territorial integrity and continues to take steps to derail the peace process. Azerbaijan talks about peace but its actions are far from peaceful.
REPORTER: Ex-MFA Vardan Oskanian believes the Armenian Government's public announcement about the willingness to recognize Nagorno-Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan alone was enough to change the narrative and "tie Russia's hands" and make it impossible for them to help reopen the Lachin Corridor.
MARUKYAN: Making a political statement is not the same as signing a document. Again, the critics are ignoring the second part of the Armenian Government's message, which contains preconditions. Armenia will sign a document to recognize Nagorno-Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan only if Azerbaijan: 1) Recognizes Armenia's territorial integrity and exits the occupied territories of Armenia, 2) Respects the rights and security of the Nagorno-Karabakh population.
If Azerbaijan doesn't agree to those, Pashinyan's statement will remain political in nature, and not on paper.
REPORTER: Is Russia using Pashinyan's political statement as an excuse to avoid its own responsibilities under the Nov. 9 agreement?
MARUKYAN: Has the Nov. 9 document ever been canceled? Vardan Oskanian claims Russian peacekeepers aren't opening the Lachin Corridor because of Pashinyan's political statement. But that doesn't make sense. We have a signed document that mentions "Nagorno-Karabakh" multiple times, yet Russia even refuses to use the term "Nagorno-Karabakh", they use "Karabakh".
Russia's stance changed back in December 2020 when Vladimir Putin publicly recognized Nagorno-Karabakh and its surrounding territories as part of Azerbaijan. Look at the chronology of events and tell me how it's Armenia's fault that Russian peacekeepers aren't opening the Corridor.
Again, we have a Nov. 9 document that Russia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia agree is still valid and active. It has never been replaced or canceled. This document shapes the architecture of the Nagorno-Karabakh issue. The World Court gave its pro-Armenian interim ruling based on this Nov. 9 document.
The World Court's interim ruling has further strengthened the Nov. 9 document. If in the past our Western colleagues were...
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