I mean, I'm not a movie connoisseur or anything, but if the Nolan films I've seen are any indication, he absolutely ordered extra fire with his piano.
this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023
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For Interstellar Nolan didn't want to give the full details at the start and just told him to create something that would go along with the story of a father and a daughter. Zimmer's like check this shit out and church organs the fuck outta that assignment.
iirc he told Zimmer he needed a spacey track for a father and son cuz he didn't want some gender role shit to fuck with any music-writing decisions.
Putting Zimmer anywhere near the same league as Williams is grotesque.
Zimmer writes a medley, then has an army of underpaid and under-credited orchestrators write 95% of the film. He couldn't orchestrate his way out of a paper bag.
His primary skill is pushing the "every instrument on every note" button on his Project Sam VI and then adding an additional 6 french horns, 6 trombones, and probably a pipe organ.
Can you recall a single melody from Oppenheimer? It's all just environmental boom and brass shit, with strings that might as well be synth. Can you recall a melody from Inception? Nope, just BWAAAAH.
There's a reason all of his legitimately musical scores in the last 25 years are co-written with another composer. Batman films, The Rock, Gladiator, etc. He musically peaked as a solo composer with Backdraft, imo.
Williams, on the other hand, employees orchestrators solely because he is required by union rules to have an orchestrator. His short-scores (the blueprints that orchestrators work from) are UNBELIEVABLY detailed.
Williams went to Juilliard. Zimmer took two weeks of piano lessons and was in a band.
And no one, NO ONE, has written the number of iconic melodies and scores that Williams has. Star Wars wouldn't be Star Wars without that score... Mark Hammil has said that John Williams is more responsible for the success of Start Wars than anyone other than George Lucas.
Jurassic Park wouldn't be JP without his score.
ET. Superman. Indiana Jones. Harry Potter. You can hear the music to these films in your head right now.
Or, you can listen to Hans Zimmer in your head now too: BWAAAAH.
I'll leave you with one thought: A few months ago, my Uber driver was a former orchestrator for Zimmer at RC. He hated it and quit. Re-read those two sentences.
I can actually remember melodies from both inception and interstellar.
On top of that, hella biased. Hans created the music for The Lion King, Man of Steel, Gladiator and Pirates of the fucking Caribbean. You say I can hear the music of Williams but I can of Zimmer too. Sparrows theme is hugely recognizable. So is the music from Da Vinci Code and Sherlock Holmes. Hell, he just did the music for James fucking Bond. All of those, plus all of the other fantastic work he did, are pretty memorable.
Also I knew someone who worked on Strange New Worlds and he quit. Just because it might be a dream job for us doesn't mean it is for them.
Your complaint sounds like it's based off of you hearing Inception and thats it. Especially given that you're using examples that make no sense. Hans Zimmer had literally nothing to do with the soundtrack for Oppenheimer. You seem to just hate Nolan movies and are yelling at Zimmer for that, ignoring the fact that he's been active for decades and won an Oscar in the 80s.
You also complain about Zimmers lack of formal education. So? Going to a fancy school doesnt mean anything. There are countless stellar musicians that had nothing to do with Juliard. Not to mention the fact that its essentially an Ivy League school. The only thing Julliard confirms is that you've got money or connections. Doesn't mean that you're a good musician just like going to Harvard Law doesn't necessarily mean you'd be a good lawyer. Just means you've got connections. The opposite also applies. Considering Zimmer is as successful as he is, doesn't look like the education was that necessary.
Williams is incredible. So is Zimmer.
Hans created the music for (...) and Pirates of the fucking Caribbean
No, the music for PotC was composed by Klaus Badelt. Hans Zimmer did score movies 2-4 though, but used a lot of themes that were already established.
Not arguing for or against either wqy, as I'm a fan of both, but I wanted to add that the themes for the Kraken and Davy Jones are lit
There's no arguing that, totally agree!
Also to add some more defense for Zimmer, the BWAAAAH is actually the main theme slowed down a ton. Zimmer does a lot of expiramental shit in big budget films and I respect it. Besides, neither composer has shit on Bear Mccreary and his unstoppable hurdy gurdies and kazoos!
Point taken on mistaking Oppenheimer's patently generic score for a Zimmer work. I actually enjoy Nolan films, otherwise I wouldn't go to see them.
Klaus Badelt (who wrote the completely - IMO - non-piratical theme to PotC... seriously, could have been in the Rock and it would have made no difference) and Steve Jablonsky both came out of RC, and both write music that is indiscernible from the atmospheric, non-specific stuff that Zimmer has been making for 25 years. Everyone Zimmer has influenced sounds like they compose by smearing a varnish of LOUD around the film.
I grew up listening to HZ, he has reached incredible heights at times. But right now he owns a music factory that is 99% operated by other people, and puts his name in as composer of primarily others' work. Yeah, it's the contract they signed, but I don't think it makes him a great composer.
Zimmer did not make Oppenheimer score, Ludwig Goransson did.
The score was also pretty fantastic. Some pretty intense hate if you auto-dislike music because you think someone else did it.
This is bait
A lot of elitism and gatekeeping here and not much else.
I think the point is that you’re allowed to like a thing as long as you’re not blindly so.
I love Sword Art Online.
I’m also very aware that Sword Art Online is a complete dumpster fire.
I would agree with you except:
Putting Zimmer anywhere near Williams is grotesque.
Yeah I’m not gonna defend that one, that’s on OP
Lol I agree with you.
I haven't followed either's career particularly closely but I like a lot of stuff from both artists. The Imperial March from Star Wars and the dancing scene from MI:2 "Nyah" are some of my favorite songs from movies.
I don't know much about Zimmer from beyond his Wikipedia page but I did find this quote (from Wikipedia) regarding his stance on crediting the other musicians who help with the collaborative nature of modern production.
Originally I had this idea that it should be possible to create some kind of community around this kind of work, and I think by muddying the titles – not having "you are the composer, you are the arranger, you are the orchestrator" – it just sort of helped us to work more collaboratively. It wasn't that important to me that I had "score by Hans Zimmer" and took sole credit on these things. It's like Gladiator: I gave Lisa Gerrard the co-credit because, even though she didn't write the main theme, her presence and contributions were very influential. She was more than just a soloist, and this is why I have such a problem with specific credits.
Does he say one thing and act another way behind the scenes?
You have a point, but Zimmer does have some bangers like Discombobulate or the Cornfield Chase
Dude what are you talking about?? Hans Zimmer didn't even make the soundtrack for Oppenheimer (and also I couldn't get the soundtrack out of my head for weeks lol). As for Hans Zimmer actually, I personally think Interstellar is a 10/10 masterpiece soundtrack.
Ludwig Goransson has entered the chat
He did Tenet, right? Absolute killer of a soundtrack
He sure did, and holy shit what a soundtrack. He also just did Oppenheimer, proving he can be subtle when he needs to
I wrote my thesis in film music. One main conclusion I came up with: there are rather classical trained composers and rather "pop music" composers. E.g. the latter one need many orchestrators for the score, the "classical trained" ones orchestrate on their own. To me the popish ones might be able to have good ideas, whereas the classic ones do have such ideas as well and be able to know exactly how to craft those ideas as well.
Zimmer is a popish one, while Williams a classic one.
"Continuing the tradition of John Williams?" Dude had an Oscar by '87, I'd almost consider him a contemporary of John Williams. John Williams is more subtle though, where Hans Zimmer hits you in the face with a hammer
John Williams is 25 years - an entire generation - older though. And some of William's most famous scores (Superman, Star Wars, etc) don't hit you in the face with a hammer they drop the entire hardware store on you.
That Jurassic Park theme was my entire childhood
Don't forget E.T.
Williams made universes attractive. It's like going to a live band play a show and them just playing vs having to have a light show with it. Williams was a show in itself. No props needed.
Also the same hammer over and over.
Almost like it's their job to make good soundtracks 🤔
I first noticed Zimmer while watching Blackhawk Down. Awesome stuff. There's room in the world to love him AND Williams.
I have masterclass and will often put on Hams Zimmer lessons when headed to sleep. His voice is as fire as his music.