this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2024

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Manjaro is experimenting with **opt-out telemetry | Hacker News (More like op-out spying) (news.ycombinator.com)

submitted 1 day ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

39 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Why are distro communities turning linux more and more into Windows and Mac OS clones?

This is why I use Arch.

all 40 comments

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

I'm usually a defender of opt-out telemetry in Linux, what with it usually being trivial to untick in the installer, the telemetry not being invasive, the telemetry being private and not being able to identify people, it being used to actually benefit Linux rather than make money, and because opt-in telemetry is useless (as repeatedly stated by multiple Linux projects that I trust, such as KDE and Gnome)...

That said, holy shit this telemetry collects stuff it really should not be collecting. This is not what Linux telemetry should be. Doubly so from a distro with a troubled past in terms of management and security. This is a red flag.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

For gaming rigs, check out Garuda, imo a pretty nice Arch distro without telemetry and easy installation.

[–] [email protected] 84 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Friends don't let friends use Manjaro

Use EndeavourOS or another Arch derivative instead.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 day ago

Or just plain arch. Installing it with archinstall isn't that hard

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Oh boy looks like my weekend will be spend learning and trying to install Arch without a graphical installer. To be fair Manjaro on my laptop was my first try at Arch. I never thought how much I will come to like AUR.

EndevaourOS is already on my gaming rig so plain Arch for my laptop seems like a good challenge. Farewell Manjaro, I learned a lot

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

After you figure out how to properly partition your disk, you learn how the entire setup is actually quite simple Basically, Mount partitions, pacstrap to install the base system, generate fstab, chroot in, create a unprivileged user and add it to sudo, setup grub, configure internet, exit chroot and unmount, reboot into the newly installed system, configure X11/Wayland to your liking

[–] [email protected] 8 points 20 hours ago

Going to second other comments. Even without archinstall. It feels like it will be harder than it is. Umm, just save yourself a bit of time and configure the network and install a console editor (nano/vim whatever) while in the chroot (if going full manual). It was a minor pain to work around that for me.

There are pages discussing how to do everything (helps to have a laptop with browser, or a phone to look them up). At the end, you generally know exactly what you installed (OK no-one watches all the dependencies), and I've found any borks that happen easy to fix because I know what I installed.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 22 hours ago

the archinstall script is officially supported and very straightforward. like, almost Calamares-but-in-TUI straightforward.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's not that hard, just read the install guides and instructions. My first Arch install was like 8y ago and I expected it to be difficult - it wasn't.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Meanwhile my first Gentoo system... I was expecting to be not so bad.... Holy f I was wrong

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago

The compile times are abusive on older hardware for sure

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Oh, you can vote whether it should be opt-in or opt-out.
Oh, voting requires "Trust level 1".

Anyway, I may stop donating to Manjaro due to this. Now I just go with Arch anyway. archinstall even makes it quick to setup a VM.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

I had a forum account from long ago that I barely use and even I was able to vote ... so if you had an account there, give it a try and vote!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

The only thing archinstall script misses for me is option for flatpak setup from the get go

[+] [email protected] -21 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Oh, voting requires “Trust level 1”.

I've found that some people use Linux just to be apart of the "cool tech kids" on the internet. They don't understand how to use a CLI, what kernel level access is, what a kernel is, or even how Linux actually works as opposed to Windows/Mac.

I think Manjaro was made for them. It's like the MLM version of a Linux distro.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 22 hours ago

This is a “cool tech kid” opinion. Linux is for EVERYONE. Let’s not gatekeep it. Having GUI tools and stuff that is so easy to use that tech-illiterate people can use Linux is a great thing.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Are you trying to gatekeep Linux to only power users that use a CLI, are way above the average in computer literacy, and happen to know the nuances between Linux and other operating systems?

This is the kind of thinking that will prevent adoption to the masses. Linux doesn't have to be stupid hard to use. There are specific distros like vanilla Arch for advanced users to tinker with and options like Manjaro and Ubuntu that are ideally functional out of the box for those that just want something to work.

What Manjaro is doing here is dumb AF, and should rightfully be heavily criticized, but you statement feels like your saying you should have to be a computer expert to use any Linux distro, and that's dumb.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago

These fuckers want to prevent adoption of Linux to the masses. They hate the very idea of someone new asking questions.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

This is the kind of thinking that will prevent adoption to the masses.

Why do people always assume that is even something desirable? All that will get us is more requests for support with fewer people actually helping.

Linux doesn’t have to be stupid hard to use.

And the assumption that GUI=easy and CLI=hard should have really died in the 90s when it started.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

As someone who read at least 2/3 of the DOS 6 manual when it came out, and have used a variety of Linux flavors as well, a command prompt is the least helpful interface devised. What do you type there? How do you let the computer know when you're done typing? If the answers seem obvious to you, think about why, and what on the screen would point you that way if you hadn't had training. People are very visual, in general, and a simple interface such as a mouse that directs focus and has a minimal amount of interaction options is far easier to get started with, especially if the GUI has culturally intuitive icons (save needs updating).

I don't think the power of the command line, or text interfaces in general, can be overstated, but even the most helpful text interfaces, such as those found in some IDEs, require prior knowledge to be useful. This isn't going to work for the majority of people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

If you think GUI is intuitive you have never worked in support and despaired at people trying their best to get "simple" concepts like "left-click" vs. "right-click" wrong.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

Oh, I have. Now imagine giving those people a command line.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

At least there's only a single way to tell the computer "ok, execute this command". And you see the command written in plain text before you.

And, no, no useful interface is intuitive because computers just have too many functions. There's no intuitive appliance in the world with more than a temperature knob and a timer knob. Knowledge is always required, be that cultural or by RTFM.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago

Unfortunately, for the scenario I was replying to, a lot of the times when you're doing support, you can't see the user's screen and are limited to verbal communication, so verifying what they typed or the output can lead to just as many problems. Any support scenario where you're talking the other person through a series of tasks will be very dependent on how familiar each person is with the task you're supporting. And no one Rs TFM these days, if you even get one.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

It is literally easier to explain to them how to do something on the command line than in a GUI, both in documentation and over the phone. That doesn't mean they will ever discover how to do something in either interface on their own but I don't really expect that from the people who make paper notes of the step-by-step process in GUI workflows anyway.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 hours ago

Just try to verbally describe the difference between a bracket, brace, or parenthesis, or forward slash vs backslash. I'm sure it will be fine. But absolutely, a text-based interface is easier to describe in text.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I've found that some people use Linux just to be apart of the "cool tech kids" on the internet. They don't understand how to use a CLI...

I hope that's true. If Linux has come this far to make PC life possible for the cool kids, I say welcome to each and every one of them.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

I mean, when I started using Linux I also tried to avoid the CLI, and I was successful at that with Mint for quite a while. Actually, updating Mint in GUI is faster. I didn't find a way to enable parallel downloads for apt like for pacman, but the GUI does just that.

Very much possible nowdays. I haven't even switched from Windows, I got a first computer, didn't know the difference between Linux Mint and Windows, but I found Mint easier to use. Windows confused me with separate settings and control panel, and then some guide asking me to do woodoo in scary looking registry editor...

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 day ago

Opt out telemetry is annoying. There's no guarantee it doesn't send before I've had a chance to disable.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago

If I were using Manjaro right now, at the first opportunity, I would be switching to something else. Too much enshitification happening everywhere, and people need to start voting with their "wallets" to stop these greedy fucks.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Finally time to update manjarno.snorlax.sh again -_-

[–] [email protected] 2 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

That URL doesn't seem to be working.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 22 hours ago

https://manjarno.pages.dev/

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I was just getting used to using Manjaro for my dev machines due to rolling release. Gotta find new flavor now.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 25 minutes ago

Well Debian doesn't have a rolling distro, does it?

It was something that underpinned your choice and now it's not. I'm not sure why you said gotta find when you already knew the answer.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

OpenSuse Tumbleweed. Reliable and up to date.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

Haven't touched suse ecosystem since they were suse. Now I just feel comfortable with Debian or arch.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Consider Endeavour.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yup saw it recommended in one of the comments as well, I'll look it up.