this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

The most consequential issue for voters this past election was the economy. People are feeling inflation, whether that's through food prices, rent prices, or all of the above.

Harris didn't campaign to that. Instead, she catered to families with children - a diminishing subsect of society - and small businesses. Yes she advocated for a first time home subsidy, but no young person believes they'll truly have enough money to own a home in their lifetime.

Harris ignored the working class. And so they ignored her. Plain and simple. A political party has to fix its constituents' problems, or at least lie about it. She did neither.

Stop making this about voters.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 hours ago

Yes, you're right, it's 100% Harris' fault.

She didn't take the steps needed to make people care enough about stopping a fascist dictatorship.

And it's the voters' fault that they needed to be made to care about stopping a fascist dictatorship? They should have already not wanted their friends to die.

They are both 100% to blame. Because blame isn't a limited resource.

Drag made the following meme in response to the comments in this post: https://lemmy.nz/post/16146432

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

So I completely understand why people would feel this way, given that Trump won, it must stand to reason that people voted for him more, right? Except that isn’t the case. Trump got fewer votes this election than the last one.

Let me also just add here: Fuck Trump, fuck the GOP, fuck all of the fascists that supported and voted for him. I wish that Hell was real so that they could all go there.

But the reason he won isn’t because people voted for him more, it’s because Kamala’s platform didn’t inspire democrat voters to actually go and vote for her.

You could totally say that in the two party system, choosing not to vote is the same as voting for Trump, but I think that’s not true - a large number of people who voted Biden but didn’t vote Kamala are likely to be opposed to Trump and are likely to participate in protests, activist action and organising against fascism.

You may not understand why someone would be motivated to participate in activism, but not motivated to vote - and I completely understand that too. People who are into electoral politics don’t really grasp how others feel about it.

There are a number of reasons why that could be, but I would say that probably chief among them are the fact that she represented a status quo rather than a shift towards socialism, and because she refused to take a firm position against the ongoing genocide in Gaza

Of course, you’re free to believe as you wish, and I’m not trying to change your mind really - I’m just trying to add a bit of nuance and help explain what happened.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

a large number of people who voted Biden but didn’t vote Kamala are likely to be opposed to Trump

That's an intention, a feeling. It's not an action.

and are likely to participate in protests, activist action and organising against fascism.

That's great, but it isn't voting.

These people chose to do nothing about Trump winning the election, and then take on a fascist dictatorship with banners and guns. That's a great idea if you want a civil war. That's a great idea if you think that making people suffer and making them see their friends and family die will radicalise them into revolutionary soldiers.

Is that the plan, or do the people who didn't vote just not have a plan? Were they acting on their emotions? Did they think that it was Kamala's job to make them feel motivated to resist fascism, because the prospect of voting against a fascist dictatorship just isn't a sweet enough deal on its own?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

It was a choice between neo-fascist now or neo-fascist later, DragonFucker.

Can you not at least see how people might want to try to find other paths forwards and actually make changes?

I was all for telling folks to vote prior to the election, but I can hugely empathise and understand why they didn't.

Kids in cages, anti-Trans laws, bombs to Israel and Saudi Arabia have only gone up from Bush to Obama to Trump to Biden. The system is the same, it just gets to mask off a bit when Trump is at the helm.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

Drag will reiterate drag's point that we are now facing the prospect of actually making changes, as you say, against a fascist dictatorship. That's harder than against a liberal capitalist state. If we're Sisyphus and America is the boulder, then these people just decided to let the boulder roll downhill and smash into a lube factory. That makes it harder to make changes, not easier.

What is the plan in this decision?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

I think that if Kamala had been elected, then we would have had four more years of things getting worse under neoliberalism, before getting a fascist in 2028. america is kind of a fascist country, it’s just now that the american people are experiencing it for themselves rather than just subjecting it on others

[–] [email protected] 9 points 19 hours ago (9 children)

So when will the Democratic Party unveil it's grand plan to actually RESIST all this fascism?

Does anyone have a schedule, perhaps?

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

The people are tired of the Dems presenting them with weak bullshit solutions to their very real problems and being told to get on board because the alternative is worse. The cost of living in America is drowning the middle class and the Dems keep throwing us water wings.

I don't agree that Trump's policies are the answer but I can understand desperate people looking anywhere for some relief.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 20 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 6 points 19 hours ago

That’s not at all what happened.

The donkey showed people the positions and the people sat at home.

The same assholes as usual voted Republican and that’s how Trump won.

People were lazy, disinterested, and not motivated to vote for the incumbent party.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

It's not their platform was weak. It's that they are weak. They hold their tongue while their opponents are jerking off in their face. They mind their Ps & Qs while someone holds a gun to a child's head somewhere in America. They govern "responsibly" while half the government is on fire. There is no sense of urgency, there is no sense of reality, there is no sense they actually give a fuck.

It's easy to stand up there at the podium and wane intellectual about filling the sky with stars and ask us all to "keep fighting" but where was your fight? How did you lose to this with everything on the line?

Why would we fight for a bunch of fish to be thrown on land so we can sit there and watch them flop around drowning in a political environment that is killing them?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago

I might go one further and say "Look, you need to take my platform seriously!" isn't a winning message when the last guy lied about his platform. Biden took office promising a bunch of BernieBro shit - debt forgiveness, climate change reform, prosecution of corrupt officials from the prior administration, voting reform - and then failed to deliver. Obama ran into the same shit after 2008, tanking his majorities in 2010 and then pulling through despite a negative approval rating in 2012, because he did not deliver the goods.

How did you lose to this with everything on the line?

Its easy to forget that conservatives (particularly the heavy hitters) also have a ton of shit on the line. You'll notice Wall Street loves a full GOP House/Senate/Presidency and the market is surging. Crypto is surging. Elon Musk and the Winklevoss Twins and the Murdochs and even Bezos are bullish on the next four years. These people had vast fortunes on the line and they acted like it. They turned the country against the Democrats by hook and by crook, through their mass media and their industrial stoogies.

The Democrats needed their old allies in the labor movement to push back. They needed teachers and university students. They needed the urban professional class. But after Biden sold out the rail unions and failed to support service sector or aerospace or even the fucking Postal Service? After he flubbed debt forgiveness for college grads? After he let state governments (in Red and Blue states alike) run roughshod over public education? Who was left?

Dems immolated their own base, chasing the traditionally conservative upper middle class white homeowners. Schumer promised that every blue collar voter who went to Trump would be replaced by two suburban moms. Oops.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Maybe if Trump starts executing them, and shit becomes win or die for them like it is for a lot of people, then maybe they'll start thinking about how to win at all costs (like listening to what people actually want) instead of "we want to win, but only as long as it doesn't adversely affect our donor daddies"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 23 hours ago

No, they need to be replaced. They're complicit.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (2 children)

2008- Popular vote (D) 69,498,516 vs. [R] 59,948,323
2012- Popular vote (D) 65,915,795 vs. [R] 60,933,504
2016- Popular vote (D) 65,853,514 vs. [R] 62,984,828
2020- Popular vote (D) 81,283,501 vs. [R] 74,223,975
2024- Popular vote (D) 68,092,002 vs. [R] 72,747,033

Trump lost some voters. Kamala lost WAY more voters. Find out why 15 million voters overall didn't vote. Or more particularly, find out why all those voters came out in 2020 and not in 2016 or 2024.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 22 hours ago

I would say 2020 was more the outlier then anything. Then again, that was right after 4 years of trump and you know waves hands all the crap that happened then.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 day ago (5 children)

People forget that nationwide elections are ordinarily determined by infrequent voters to begin with.

It wasn't high-propensity voters voting for trump, third party, or abstaining, it was ordinary non-political americans who didn't see a point in voting for a status-quo center-right candidate.

People have been screaming at democrats since at least 2008 that they need more progressive, more radical policies, and they've repeatedly avoided addressing those concerns. Trump ran in 2016 as a moderate. He came out on the left of fucking hillary clinton on the war in Iraq and interventionism. She lost to trump because he maneuvered to the left of her, and democrats still have not fucking learned.

Democrats need to let go of their moderate progenitors and re-build their base from the bottom left. They're leaving millions of voters on the table because they keep hamstringing themselves on a bygone era of popular neoliberalism, and there's nobody left to blame now but the party itself.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago (5 children)

At her Michigan Rally two days ago she vowed to do all she can to end the war in Gaza. Granted it was way too little too late. No idea why she waited until a day before the election to say the thing everybody has been wanting her to say since the beginning.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago

For most voters, that concession was too little too late. Effectively, her campaign still didn't support a ceasefire nor cease of arms transfers.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Harris actively banished Gaza from her campaign. She did not allow Palestine at the DNC. She promised to keep sending weapons to Israel. Her position was extremely clear.

Vague lip service two days before the election means nothing.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago

It's not a war, it's a genocide. The UN is able to call it a genocide. The Hague is able to call it a genocide. The fact that Harris refused to acknowledge it as a genocide meant that nothing further would actually be done.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago

Because she saw that she was gonna lose. Or thought it would fly under the radar to not piss off more but somehow convince others that she meant it?

The Democrats seemed to have thought the election a game that could be won with clever tactics and moves the whole time instead of meeting the challenge head on. Truly a shit show of poor party management.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (2 children)

The problem wasn't Harris or her platform, it was that more than half of American voters are fucking idiots. Massive public stupidity is a problem no politician and no platform can cure. We've spent more than half a century addicting ourselves to entertainment and convenience. We need everything presented to us in memes now. America collectively has shit for brains, so we're going to have a sack of shit for President. Congrats y'all.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 hours ago

Missouri passed a $15 minimum wage law that goes into effect in 2026, and voted to keep abortion legal. Missouri also in general voted for Trump.

People are not the issue. Americans are mostly in favor of a lot of progressive policies. Democrats however failed to package and frame those in a way that would swing voters, however.

I will never stop blaming the Democratic party over the American people.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 19 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 8 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

The ceasefire in Gaza was always bullshit and it was obviously bullshit.

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Harris wasn't pro ceasfire in Gaza, please stop gaslighting people.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Straight up Reddit tier cope from liberals this last week. If you wanted to win don't turn away 15 million people from your base to pander to a bunch of MAGA voters who were always picking trump regardless. Absolute fucking morons.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 day ago (4 children)

"vote for a ceasefire" is the ceasefire in the room with us now? Because I'm not surprised people DIDNT vote for someone who was the fucking president but refused to pressure to end a war because it could be used as leverage in an election campaign.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Weak platform my ass. Half of the US population is simply too brainwashed to even comprehend what Kamala offered them.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Trump lost votes from last election. Kamela lost a fuck ton more. No one became a trump voter, kamela offered nothing to the left and expected support. Do I wish my fellow leftists would of voted for self preservation? Fuck yeah I do. But at the end of the day it's the candidate at fault. And Kamala did everything in her fucking power to lose the left vote. It's the same every god damn time with the Democrats. You want something to focus your anger at? Focus it at the party fighting trump 2024 with Trump's 2020 border wall, military, immigration ass policies.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 22 hours ago

Other then not Trump (a fair offer to be honest) what did she offer voters? She seemed to run on a status quo platform.

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[–] [email protected] 112 points 1 day ago (29 children)

Too complicated for 90% of voters to comprehend.

They saw: Democrat president made my groceries more expensive

They heard: Democrat replacement will do things around the same as they used to be. Republican guy is going to do things VERY differently.

And the herd mentality took over past that point

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