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Could this be considered a harm reduction strategy?
Not that I think CSAM is good in any way, but if it saves a child would it be worthwhile? Like if these pedos were to use AI images instead of actual CSAM would that be any better?
I've read that CSAM sites on the dark web number into the hundreds of thousands. I just wonder if it would be a less harmful thing since it's such a problem.
by the same metric, i wonder why not let convicts murderers and psichopaths work at Slaughterhouses
On the other hand, are people who work at slaughterhouses more likely to be murderers and psychopaths?
perhaps, but I said convicted.
Do we know that AI child porn is bad? I could believe it would get them in the mood for the real thing and make them do it more, and I could believe it would make them go "ok, itch scratched", and tank the demand for the real stuff.
Depending on which way it goes, it could be massively helpful for protecting kids. I just don't have a sense for what the effect would be, and I've never seen any experts weigh in.
In Australia cartoon child porn is enforced in the same way as actual child porn. Not that it answers your question but it's interesting.
I'd imagine for your question "it depends", some people who would have acted on their urges may get their jollies from AI child porn, others who have never considered being pedophiles might find the AI child porn (assuming legal) and realise it's something they were into.
I guess it may lower the production of real child porn which feels like a good thing. I'd hazard a guess that there are way more child porn viewers than child abusers.
In Australia a 30 year old woman cannot be in the porn industry if she has small breasts. That, and the cartoon ban both seem like overcompensating.
Nothing says "we're protecting children" like regulating what adult women can do with their bodies.
Conservatives are morons, every time.
They're not morons.
Any time anyone ever says they want to do anything "to protect the children" you should assume it's about control. No one actually gives a shit about children.
You're missing the point. They don't care what's more or less effective for helping kids. They want to punish people who are different. In this case nobody is really going to step up to defend the guy for obvious reasons. But the motivating concept is the same for conservatives.
I don't see how children were abused in this case? It's just AI imagery.
It's the same as saying that people get killed when you play first person shooter games.
Or that you commit crimes when you play GTA.
Well, the image generator had to be trained on something first in order to spit out child porn. While it may be that the training set was solely drawn/rendered images, we don't know that, and even if the output were in that style, it might very well be photorealistic images generated from real child porn and run through a filter.
An AI that is trained on children and nude adults can infer what a nude child looks like without ever being trained specifically with those images.
Your argument is hypothetical. Real world AI was trained on images of abused childen.
How was the model trained? Probably using existing CSAM images. Those children are victims. Making derivative images of “imaginary” children doesn’t negate its exploitation of children all the way down.
So no, you are making false equivalence with your video game metaphors.
A generative AI model doesn't require the exact thing it creates in its datasets. It most likely just combined regular nudity with a picture of a child.
In that case, the images of children were still used without their permission to create the child porn in question
That's a whole other thing than the AI model being trained on CSAM. I'm currently neutral on this topic so I'd recommend you replying to the main thread.
How is it different?
It's not CSAM in the training dataset, it's just pictures of children/people that are already publicly available. This goes on to the copyright side of things of AI instead of illegal training material.
It’s images of children used to make CSAM. No matter of your mental gymnastics can change that, nor the fact that those children’s consent was not obtained.
Why are you trying so hard to rationalize the creation of CSAM? Do you actually believe there is a context in which CSAM is OK? Are you that sick and perverted?
Because it really sounds like that’s what you’re trying to say, using copyright law as an excuse.
It's every time with you people, you can't have a discussion without accusing someone of being a pedo. If that's your go-to that says a lot about how weak your argument is or what your motivations are.
It’s hard to believe someone is not a pedo when they advocate so strongly for child porn
You're just projecting your unwillingness to ever take a stance that doesn't personally benefit you.
Some people can think about things objectively and draw a conclusion that makes sense to them without personal benefit being a primary determinant of said conclusion.
You're just projecting your unwillingness to ever take a stance that doesn't personally benefit you.
I’m not the one here defending child porn
You're arguing against a victimless outlet that there is significant evidence would reduce the incidence of actual child molestation.
So let's use your 'logic'/argumentation: why are you against reducing child molestation? Why are you against fake pictures but not actual child molestation? Why do you want children to be molested?
Your claim that it’s victimless is, of course, false since real children are used in the training data without consent. This also ignores the fact that the result is child porn, for which you are arguing in support of.
Lastly, your claim that any of this results in any reduction in child abuse is spurious and unsubstantiated.
Your claim that it’s victimless is, of course, false since real children are used in the training data without consent.
Your assumption, but there are a ton of royalty-free images that contain children out there, more than enough for an AI to 'learn' proportions etc. Combine with adult nudity, and a generative AI can 'bridge the gap' create images of people that don't exist (hence the word "generative").
This also ignores the fact that the result is child porn
That's not a fact. "Child porn" requires a child--pixels on a screen depicting the likeness of a person, and a person that does not actually exist in the real world to boot, is not a child.
Lastly, your claim that any of this results in any reduction in child abuse is spurious and unsubstantiated.
I'm just making a reasonable guess based on what's been found about other things in the same subcategory (Japanese research found that those who have actually molested a kid were less likely to have consumed porn comics depicting that subject matter, than the general population), and in other sex categories, like how the prevalence of rape fantasy porn online correlates with a massive reduction of real-life rape.
Seems pretty unlikely that this is going to be the one and only exception to date where a fictional facsimile doesn't 'satiate' the urge to offend in real life, and instead encourages the 'consumer' to offend.
Honestly, I don't care if it is AI/not real, I'm glad that the man was arrested. He needs some serious help for sexualising kids.
And that guy gets that help in a prison, riiight.
Depending on the state, yes actually.
I did time in a medium security facility that also did sex offender treatment (I was there on drug charges). I still have friends that went through that program.
The men who were actually invested in getting better, got better. The ones invested in staying well, are still well.
You and I both know he's not going to get it. I have a kinda sympathy for ppl attracted to kids but refuse to act on it. They clearly know it's not normal and recognize the absolute life destroying damage they can cause if they act on it. That being said there's not many places you can go to seek treatment. Any institutions that advertised treatment would have ppl outside with pitchforks and torches.
Before anyone tries to claim I'm pro pedo you can fuck right off. I just wish it was possible for ppl who are attracted to kids and not out touching them to get some kind of therapy and medication to make them normal (or destroy their sex drive) before something terrible happens.
Do you think he's going to get help in prison?
Show me multiple (let's say 3+) small-scale independent academic studies or 1-2 comprehensive & large academic studies that support one side or another and I may be swayed, Otherwise I think all that is being accomplished is that one guys life is getting completely ruined for now and potentially forever over some fabrications and as a result he may or may not get help, but I doubt he'll be better off.
—My understanding was that csam has it's legal status specifically because there are victims that are hurt by these crimes and possession supports a broader market that faciltates said harm to these victims. It's not as easy to make a morality argument (especially a good one) for laws that effect everybody when there are no known victims.
Are you stupid? Something has to be in the training model for any generation to be possible. This is just a new way to revitalise kids