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It's the final laptop in the same way that Theseus's boat was the last one he ever bought. You can replace bits piecemeal, but at some point you'll end up with enough leftovers for a whole new laptop.
That said, I have an Intel one and it's a fantastic laptop. Also, not only are the motherboards capable of running on their own outside the laptop, but they've partnered with Cooler Master to make little cases for them so you can turn old mobos into mini PCs.
Hardware manufacturers hate this trick to multiply devices.
Should've named the company Theseus.
IDK about final but Framework has a pretty strong possibility of being my next laptop.
Anyone got this information not in a video?
Doesn't work for me since the next machine I buy needs to be waterproof. But good on them!
Why do you need a waterproof laptop? (I'm just curious)
Against spilled drinks.
I'd like to say that it's useless but after experiencing dropping a full latte on my thinkpad some time ago and the magic drain holes working properly and the laptop surviving afterwards makes me really appreciative of the feature.
Don't consume stuff over your device?
I have several bottles on my desk but if I eat or drink messy things near my keyboard, I place a towel over it.
For pooping in the hot tub, of course
Oh these guys. I love their idea but I’m with you on the water resistance.
I’ve been tempted to get one as an alternative Linux laptop to my MacBook.
That's the Framework logo. People have been talking about them a bit on here, as they're relatively-modular, as laptops go.
I like the general idea, but they don't really make the things that I care about modular. They let you:
Pick a keyboard layout. Okay, but this is basically available for other laptops. I'm just gonna get their US layout.
Pick little blocks that provide ports, like Ethernet or USB-A or DisplayPort or USB-C or audio. That's not bad, but I'm broadly okay with the ports on a laptop today. It might be slightly nicer to pick exactly where they are or have another USB-C port, but for my needs, not a big issue. This one is their big selling point, and for some people, I can believe that it's a really big deal.
Discrete video or no. That's also fine, but a lot of vendors provide this option.
If one chooses a smaller keyboard on a larger laptop, spacers, which can be an LED array. That's pretty unique, but I don't know what I'd use it for. You can also get a numpad or "macropad", but, again, not something that I'd use; if I'm gonna use macros, I'm gonna run them chorded off the main keyboard and keep my hands there. The numpad does say that it supports N-key rollover (NKRO), which could be a point for people playing certain video games, as you can have more keys down at once than a keyboard with a grid encoder, but doesn't really affect me.
There also isn't soldered-on memory or such, which is nice in terms of not paying a premium for it, but then, you're also paying a premium for the laptop in the first place.
I'd like more battery size and a Thinkpad-style Synaptics (mechanical buttons) touchpad. But those aren't options that they make modular.
The difference being you can easily replace/upgrade any of those parts on a Framework laptop...
Alright, other vendor provide an option to have or not to have discrete GPU. Can you change it once a better GPU is available? Can other laptop vendor swap out their display with a touch capable one when needed? (As of now, framework doesn't have a touchscreen available yet, but IIRC, their board has the capabilities, but then again, their board is so modular that they can offer upgrade for trade-in). Can other vendor have bigger battery when you wanted the bigger battery without affecting other hardware choices? Framework batteries in the 13 series are improved purely by better chemistry. You can replace it with the bigger capacity one.
Edit: also, they are still a new company. Their hope is that 3rd party vendor is interested in making other modular part. The trackpad is a good example of it. It also can make some patented design available to the framework if the patent holder willing to make the accessory without giving up or licensing their patent.
Discrete video or no. That’s also fine, but a lot of vendors provide this option.
Yeah, but not as a user-serviceable module that can be replaced with minimal effort. I think you're grossly oversimplifying this point.
They're largely disregarding the fact that the laptop is easily repairable... They're kinda missing the whole point of the device/company.
Yea, the difference between my laptop today and an equivalent one 5 years ago is dramatic (both X series Lenovo's) . The construction alone is completely different. The new one is slimmer, lighter, while dissipating more heat, and they're the same brand and line. And let's not talk about the difference from my 2008 Lenovo X.
This thing is no more my last laptop as my previous Lenovo X.
I own the Framework Laptop 13 and 16. I can answer any questions you have.
Would you buy it again?
The Framework 13, yes. I bought my wife one. I bought another for a cousin. My company has been deploying them for other users. They have been nothing but spectacular.
The Framework 16, it's still early, but it's been riddled with bugs. The latest driver pack from late April seems to have fixed most of the issues I've been having, so we'll see, but based on my experience so far, I can't recommend anyone buy it until the get a few more driver and BIOS patches out.
I was Batch 1 and mine works perfectly. I love it.
Your Framework 16? That's great! Mine had an issue where the GPU just disappeared until the BIOS updated. It's been a few days now, and it seems to be rock solid. Most of my issues were GPU related.
Ah nice to hear it's fixed!
Are you on Windows or Linux on the 16?
Windows 11. I want to play games without having to think about how to get it to work.
Just curious. Proton takes all of that effort out of the equation, plus I'm willing to bet there aren't as many driver problems, if there are any at all.
Proton can make games from the windows store that I already own work on Linux? Proton can make games that are borked rated on protondb work?
I love Linux as much as the next tech nerd, I have a SteamDeck that I essentially use as a laptop when away from home, and I tried dailying Manjaro on my main machine for a couple months. Proton doesn't solve everything.
I can totally understand running windows on your main gaming machine, as that's what I do. I don't like it, but all of my games work. I also don't want to have to re-buy games on Steam that I own via the Windows store.
how many years do you think we should wait?
I have both laptops and they're amazing.
Forbes isn’t great but their overall philosophy means it should last at least 10 years if you take care of it. I have an acer c720 with Debian that still kinda works
That’s not really saying much if that’s all their shooting for. My last two desktops lasted 12+ years and just turned into severs afterwards. My 2013 MBP just got replaced as my daily driver last year and still works as a backup in a pinch. I use a Toshiba Haswell Intel laptop from 2013 as a dev kubernetes cluster. Unless you’re doing something wrong or need to be cutting edge, you should easily get 10yrs out of it. I want to know if I can get 20-30 out of this framework laptop, in theory I’d be possible with replacement parts and such. If framework is in business that long at last.
They’re a new company so we’ll still have to see if they’re as reliable as some older machines. Providing parts and usb c adapters helps with longevity I guess
Apple doesn't provide board-level schematics so that anyone with a good supplier and a steady hand with a soldering iron can fix their motherboard, though. You also can't replace parts nearly as easily, even on older MacBooks. Swappable ports also help, so that if HDMI or displayport get replaced you can change to the new standard.
Accessing the RAM, wifi, and SSD are only 5 screws away, and they give you a screwdriver in the package.
Basically, Framework has provided so much information that you could practically build one from scratch yourself with enough determination and self-loathing.
I own both a 13 and 16 inch. Absolutely love them, especially the 16 inch.
Yeah but what about the laptop?
Young entrepreneurs are cool. They’re interesting, enthusiastic, and genuinely want to make things better. They haven’t started enshittifying their product yet just because they’re greedy assholes. Remember when Google’s motto was “don’t be evil”?
No, they aren't. Most of them represent the exact same mentality that leads to enshittification - profit at all cost.
CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME
That “most” is key. We can’t tell how they’re going to act long term. It’s nice to see someone who’s excited about their product, simply because they believe it’s good. Currently, they’re trying to be customer focused, which is a major plus.
It’ll be interesting to check in on these folks in ten or twenty years. They might turn out to suck, just like you say. However, maybe they won’t turn out like most companies, and will stick to the core principles they had when they started. Maybe they’ll become a major ally of the right to repair movement, and become an example for other companies to follow.
Our economic system isn’t undergoing major changes anytime soon. I want to see what someone who’s grown up with enshittification and planned obsolescence does. That’s what makes things cool and interesting.
Just why do people on Lemmy need to turn every unrelated post into some anti-capitalist rant?
because it is filled with far left
I have repaired a lot of laptops in the past. The repairability depends on the price and the brand. But most of them are repairable. The issue is often first finding the part number and the correct part on the right website. With some luck the manufacturer has a manual available for finding part numbers and repair steps. But most of the time YouTube is where you end up. What I mean is, with other laptops the repair success depends on more variables. The framework laptops stand out because of the ease of the repair process and the success rate of the repairs. Finding the right part number and part online and the guide to actually repair the laptop and the actual replacing is also easy the parts are designed to be easily replaced. It is also possible to send them the broken part back for recycling, how they to that I haven't looked into yet. The i/o is nice the fact that you can change and decide later to add more ports For the average user this is not the big sell feature. It's the fact that you can save money and still have your device, have minimal downtime. I compared laptops of the same specs or very close to. The added price is between 100 and 200 euros. You'll be happy you spent that extra when your laptop eventually had a hardware malfunction. Or can use an upgrade.
Dont the upgrades cost close to a new laptop though? And what are you supposed to do with the old parts?
They sell cases to make a small desktop/media center, you can resell them for people that need that or weaker laptop is fine. Or you can recycle.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=gGdSnGgQnAc&ab_channel=S3
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
That looks good, but I've not seen much about replacing the screen with one ready for using a Stylus and taking notes at class, do they not sell those? I don't want to be using a tablet plus a laptop for the rest of my life!
