this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (6 children)

All of what you just said has zero evidence to support it.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

I literally quoted a source. Want more? This is the Cathechism of the Catholic Church on the topic of free will:

1730

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be 'left in the hand of his own counsel,' so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."

1739

1739 Freedom and sin. Man's freedom is limited and fallible. In fact, man failed. He freely sinned. By refusing God's plan of love, he deceived himself and became a slave to sin. This first alienation engendered a multitude of others. From its outset, human history attests the wretchedness and oppression born of the human heart in consequence of the abuse of freedom.

If instead you were looking for philosophical evidence for God's existance, I recommend reading Thomas Aquinas' Five Ways.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

So your original comment asked what are apologists, then you go into typical apologetics arguments? Quite funny really.

Everything before your last sentence presupposes your personal interpretation of your god.

I'm not looking for philosophical evidence. I'm looking for objective evidence. And Aquinas is catastrophically out of his depth with his "5 Ways". Pretty much every line has some error. Further, even if it were true, to take the end result of each of those individually and then say "Clearly this is the Christian god of the Bible and definitely not any other god humans have believed in or a coincidence or have any rational explanation." is the height of arrogance.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Quite funny really

I know, right? Like I said it was mostly a semantics issue, I wasn't sure what OP meant. When they kindly clarified their question I gave them my answer, coming from a different perspective from most of the commenters.
Then in you came, and started slandering my religion. Like you might have guessed it didn't quite sit right with me. Assuming you are an Atheist, it's like I came at you saying that "Atheists have no morals" or "Atheists are nothing but hedonists". I don't think you would have liked it. So I tried my best to provide sensible answers to your remarks. I guess that makes me too an apologist; I don't really have a problem with that label.

Everything before your last sentence presupposes your personal interpretation of your god.

No, it is the interpretation of the Catholic Church, which is the church followed by most Christians on this planet.

I'm not looking for philosophical evidence [...]

Alright, you do you then. It seems to me that you are trying to explain God through science, and I'm not sure whether that is possible. Science, from a Christian perspective, is the study of God's creation. Inferring knowledge about the creator from His creation seems like an arduous task to me. I think using reasoning and philosophy would be a more reasonable option.

Clearly this is the Christian god of the Bible and definitely not any other god humans have believed in [...]

One step at a time. Once we are both on the same page that a higher being exist and the universe and life aren't just the product of mere coincidence we can discuss why I think the "Christian God", like you called him, is the right interpretation. But first you would need to accept religion(s) in general.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

No, it is the interpretation of the Catholic Church, which is the church followed by most Christians on this planet.

Are you espousing views you don't believe in? Or is it still your personal interpretation as well?

It seems to me that you are trying to explain God through science, and I'm not sure whether that is possible.

No. Apologists do that. I'm simply correcting the errors in their claims. There is no argument without apologists first trying to claim there is a god.

Science, from a Christian perspective, is the study of God's creation.

Alright, you do you then. Meanwhile science from a science perspective doesn't include the supernatural.

Once we are both on the same page that a higher being exist

I've heard all the apologists argument and remain unconvinced. If you're still flogging Aquinas, you clearly have not heard all the rebuttals. Your move.

But first you would need to accept religion(s) in general.

That needs to be proven for me to accept.

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