this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2024
12 points (100.0% liked)

anti_cishet_aktion

2620 readers
4 users here now

A space for LGBTQIA+ people to express themselves.


RULES

  1. Familiarize yourself with the site-wide Code of Conduct

  2. Be nice to each other, no bigotry of any kind
    Bigotry includes transphobia, homophobia, aphobia, sexism, racism, ableism, etc. Hold each other accountable. If you see something, say something.

  3. Don't link to transphobia
    Please don't link to transphobia (or other bigotry), even if your personal intent is to challenge the bigotry in some way. Provide a content warning label in the title of your post where applicable.

  4. Be dank; don't be not-dank
    No liberalism, capitalist apologia, imperialism, etc.

  5. Harassment
    Cyber-stalking, harassment, and all other forms of threatening another comrade will result in removal.
    Threatening, inciting violence, and promoting harm to another comrade shall result in removal.

  6. No sexually explicit content
    As badly as some of us want to get saucy here, do not post sexually-explicit content that could reveal your personal or confidential information. Until there is a way this could be safely executed, all sexually-explicit posts will be removed to keep our comrades safe.

  7. Do not post NSFL Content
    It will be removed.

  8. We are not a crisis service
    We can't guarantee an immediate response. This does not mean no one cares. If you need to talk to someone at once, you may want to take a look at this directory of Hotline Numbers.
    If you need help but don’t feel comfortable making a post for any reason, please message the moderators. We will be glad to talk with you privately, or help in any other way that we can.

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

For reference, I am a trans girl and pretty sure I'm Endosex. I do not know any openly intersex people IRL.

Is the term GRSM inclusive of intersex people, and if not and it should be, what alternatives besides LGBTQIA+ are? (I've heard Quiltbag and Mogai as well but apparently they are both problematic? Idk but apparently Quiltbag feeds into gay stereotypes and Mogai divides the overrall community but I have no idea).

I would appreciate responses from Intersex comrades if possible, but I'd love any form of help on this issue. Thanks <3

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

I'm part of an inter inclusive trans and nonbinary community in Germany and have noticed that "intersex" has become as outdated as "transsexual" among activist queers, we just use "inter" specifically because we do not want to conflate it with sexual orientations like homo/bi/pan/a/demisexual etc.

idk if the same is happening in the US, but it would make sense if it did, and my inter friends all use it in this way. Also i see TIN* (trans, inter and nonbinary) as an acronym increasingly often in German discourse. Note that none of these categories are mutually exclusive, when i say "trans and nonbinary", the "and" is used as "and / or". It does very definitely not mean that nonbinary isn't a valid trans identity, just that it's up to the individual if them being nonbinary also means that they identify as trans. I absolutely do identify as both, but i've met a lot of nonbinary folks who find that their lived experience is different from that of trans people and that they do not want to claim the trans label, and when i'm placing self ID front and center in the liberation of queer people, i can hardly argue with that.

As far as wider umbrella terms go, i'm very happy with just using queer for anybody who is subjected to othering based on gender, orientation or assumptions about their "biological sex", but i understand that the history as a reclaimed slur makes this more complicated among older LGBTQIA+ people in anglophone countries, especially in the UK where it seems to have been in widespread use as a slur for much longer than elsewhere. Over here, rejection of the "queer" label is overwhelmingly the domain of assimilationist cis gay and cis lesbian reactionaries who usually have a strong agenda to exclude anybody who isn't a cis endo allosexual binary white "judeochristian" potatogerman gay man or lesbian woman, and i don't feel particularly bad about alienating these people.

Regarding MOGAI, idk if it's actually problematic, it just has gotten a ton of flak from reactionaries who extensively used tumblr kids making pride flags for hypthetical genders and orientations as rage bait. A lot of the MOGAI labels literally exist just as a play of thought and aren't something anybody has ever actually identified as, or they are representations of how some questioning teenager happened to feel on a given day. I'm not saying this to trash talk MOGAI, these are perfectly reasonable things to do when you're a kid figuring out who you are. I'm just saying that a lot of people use that as an attack vector to get mad about "the left making up 189 new genders every day" and that this should be kept in mind when somebody criticizes MOGAI. These often aren't good faith discussions.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Thank you so much for the education on Inter people, LGBTQIA+ language and MOGAI. I was semi-aware the hate towards MOGAI was generally coming from transphobes, but I've seen queer people who are leftists distance themself from the label and I assumed it was for another reason. Cheers, Silv.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Well, there's bad faith arguments around MOGAI from all directions - if you ever see the "bisexuality is enbiephobic because bi means you're attracted to exactly 2 genders" discussion in the wild, run. But the nomenclature as a whole definitely has drawn a ton of attention from chuddy ragebait accounts.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Some bisexuals are attracted to enbies lmao, plus if bisexuality = two genders does biracialness = two races? Some people just choose to be ignorant, me personally when I see them I'll correct them and only interact if they have positive or constructive negative feedback, otherwise I just ignore them (mute them if possible lol)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Honestly, i don't know any bisexual that isn't attracted to enbies. I mean, not being attracted to enbies at all isn't a thing that's possible in the first place when you feel any kind of attraction because enbie includes every gender presentation imaginable, including all binary presentations because enbie is as much of a blanket / catchall term as it gets, but even if we're talking about "stereotypical androgynous look you'd expect to see constantly in a selfie thread in a nonbinary community", i don't know any out of the tons of bisexual people i know who wouldn't be into that.