this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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kuno.anne.media started hosting this VPN’s ads, since around the end of October, 2023, also blatantly calling /cdn-cgi/apps/head/ (trying to installing some CF app(s) via .js if your browser is lenient).
Not sure which is better: zero-fee idealism + ad-supported (implicitly selling some info) vs. low-fee realism + ad-free
First of all, AriaVPN is a brand of Anne Media and when we became host to Kuno, it was pre-agreed that instead of asking for donations that'd cover the cost of hosting and additional development, we'll simply add our ad for our VPN service so we can reach out to the community. We don't run external ads. Secondly, the script you see and block facilitates automated translations, which we added on request. So thank you for your assessment.
You’re basically using Kuno to attract potential VPN customers? That could be an interesting, new business model. Some marginalized people can get humanitarian help via Monero, while these supporters (Monero users) are likely to be interested in privacy, so they might buy your VPN service. In theory, this could be win-win-win :) A good potential.
On the other hand, it’s rather obvious that you’re not one of us, not someone privacy-aware. You can read some discussions about Kuno here:
Use Cloudflare (while saying “We protect your privacy”), and you’ll immediately lose 50% of trust. Additionally, the script via CDN in question is for Google Translation… 😓 Like this, perhaps a typical privacy advocate doesn’t even consider your VPN. The worst part is, you’re not even able to see the problem… If you were a privacy advocate, Google wouldn’t be even an option to begin with. (If you’re wondering why, perhaps you shouldn’t do VPN business.) How about LibreTranslate, for example?
Get rid of anything Google, and stop using CF (MitM) so that you might be able to rebuild credibility. Make everything Tor-friendly. That’s a minimum requirement for the “privacy industry”: even something rather iffy like Proton has a token onion. I also suggest you be transparent about Kuno. Make it clear it’s zero-fee because it’s there as a promotion for your VPN business. Such transparency doesn’t make you look bad. On the contrary, people may trust you more, if the reason why it’s zero-fee is not hidden and people behind it are honest.
Kuno could be a great website—it has already helped a few people. Some of us were even saying (thinking) that we were willing to make donation to Kuno itself (not buying your VPN, but we could send you XMR anyway “for free”). Still, I hope Kuno will become somewhat more privacy-aware, so that a typical Monero user feels comfortable with using it. Thank you for reading.
In essence, ads serve a brand awareness purpose, but what a giant stretch to call an ad a business model. Although it would be fantastic if the core of the Monero community saw the value & helped, AriaVPN service isn't specifically aimed at the typical Monero user. Our target market is the new user or crypto-aware/curious user.
As for privacy, there are different levels, and I'm sure not one of 'you', i.e. those excessively paranoid. To be in our field of business, there is no way of avoiding revealing our identities, so I can't even begin to mind using Cloudflare as one of our service providers. On the contrary, they are a top-grade service, and using them doesn't compromise anyone's privacy except ours. Those fussy about suspected CF proxy logs can use VPN/Tor when accessing the site. Plus, we are the main third party. If someone posts a listing on Kuno asking for funding to cause harm or injury, I'll remove it before they can say Cloudflare. These folks can do that shit on the darknet where and if the admins allow for it.
Then, I find the downtime/crackpot drama pathetic. This had been covered and discussed at length and ended up in that crackpot losing his 5 XMR bet and his X account, and anyone who believes we are not a reliable host to Kuno can feel free to grab & run an instance themselves and do a better job.
Lastly, you get no argument from me GT isn't a great choice. Hence we don't use it for AriaVPN but as for Kuno, that's a very different story. Right now, we don't have the luxury of time and resources to give Kuno the full dedication it may deserve, and as for donations, appreciate the thought, but that's not my style. The chance that a community donations-based model would cover real expenses we incur beyond mere hosting is nill. So perhaps instead of giving unsolicited advice, tho not overly out of place, you might consider contributing your skills to the common goal? We sure have plans and could use the expert hand.
Bold of you to starting insulting "us" in our forum where "we" are collectively giving you actionable feedback.
The monero community here is small, but we're very vocal, so obviously you're here trying to get us to get on board with the service and advocate for it. Which we can be. Insulting us however is going to diminish our zeal in promoting your service over other known good services such as Mullvad.
Though I would suggest you look at privacy guides, getting listed there as a well-respected VPN provider could be a huge boon for you
That CF may block Tor indiscriminately is a well-known fact acknowledged by CF itself. Calling that “paranoia” only shows they’re not familiar with online privacy. They say, “Those fussy about suspected CF proxy logs can use VPN/Tor when accessing the site.” No one here is talking about “suspected CF proxy logs”. When Tor is blocked, “use Tor!” couldn’t be a solution.
Maybe the person was not a fool, just not too good at English, can’t fully understand what they read. Some of their first posts were ambiguous & confusing too. Nevertheless, they don’t seem to be a good salesperson, being rude to potential customers, not having some basic knowledge about online privacy.
Their worst move was, the childish assumption that we might be willing to cooperate with them if they paid a small rebate to us in XMR (they might be imagining that we love XMR so much we’d do anything if they pay XMR). Unfortunately for them, many users here are critical thinkers… What they should have tried is, explaining how their service was different (if it is different), why one may want to use it. The title “A great opportunity to earn Monero has landed!” is, frankly, pathetic.
Yeah we're not the Right audience for monero rebates. But that will appeal to some people. And that's fine. That can be part of their pitch.
Safing, Mullvad, proton are the services peer competitors.
Now if they advertise, and appeal to people to make crypto rebates, that could be interesting. We're not the right demographic for that, but that's a sales pitch that could work.
For a VPN provider, who's accepting monero, they need to focus on the privacy aspects. Make it clear where their servers are, make it clear how to download a wire guard or open VPN configuration without using their client. Those are important things for the privacy community.
If you guys feel personally offended by my words, then I must have hit the spot. Let's make one thing clear. You speak for yourself and not for the community as a whole. While I acknowledge there is always room for improvement, and we're working on it 24/7, and no one is perfect, I find it difficult to care about the subjective opinions of people who make general statements on behalf of everyone else whom they think they represent (wow), and whether knowingly or not, undermining the genuine efforts of others. May I ask, how do you contribute to the community besides shitposting? Your trouble making a distinction between a referral program and a rebate is a clear indication that you don't have a clue what you are on about. We've simply dedicated 30% of our turnover to marketing, just like many other VPN providers do, and that's not a small feat. But we're the first of the kind providing a unique opportunity to earn Monero and also unprecedently offering daily payouts to prove the point, so oh boy, yes, the opportunity has landed. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant, and I appreciate it's not for everyone, but let me reiterate. It's arrogant and deluded of you to assume that you represent 'we', as the entire community. Anyway, for whatever it's worth, we've taken your feedback under advisement. Thank you very much for your contribution.
Thank you, good luck, goodbye.
Your comments often use direct personal insults.
Excessively paranoid, shit poster, no clue, arrogant, deluded....
Nobody in this thread has used personal insults against you. When rhetoric devolves into insults, your position is weak.
Again we're just trying to provide you actionable feedback, which you appear to want, and also reject. I have no animosity towards your business, or even your business model, I wish you the best success. Indicating that insulting your potential customers is not a good look, is just common sense, and should not make me the focus of your scorn. Your effort is misplaced
Yes, by intent. I always speak my mind and don't sugarcoat things. I simply provided you guys with a relevant response to your feedback so that you can understand why some of it is misplaced and goes way beyond just being constructive criticism. The audience can decide whether my responses are valid or not. Tho, I haven't rejected your feedback. Saying we’ve taken your feedback under advisement, means exactly what it says. We've already taken some steps in the direction you might like, but there's a gap between the target audience we aim at and the group of people you refer to as "we". We love Monero perhaps more than we should, and the aim (business aside) is to help Monero to reach out beyond "we". I appreciate that you wish us success, thank you.