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submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Since my polymorph meme has only garnered three downvotes so far I thought I'd offer a bit more controversial take, and see if I can manage to stir the pot a bit with this one.

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[-] [email protected] 63 points 1 year ago

So this sent me down an absolute rabbit hole. As a DM there's a few ways I'd consider to stop this being entirely game-breaking:

  • You could argue that the only thing strength before death shows is that you can activate strength before death between hitting 0 and getting knocked out. A wizard is no samurai. Therefore concentration spells are not allowed.
  • You could argue that life steal requires life to steal, and as such you can't life steal yourself.
  • You could enforce the requirement of the figurine required for vampiric touch, then engineer a scenario to remove it at a critical moment and see if they realise.

Personally I would instead depart from RAW and point out a version of option 2, but a lenient one. Something like "you can do this but you are sapping your very essence to do it. Every time you do it, you permanently lose 10% of your HP" or "every time you do this you increase the number of death saving throws you must succeed before you die". Or my personal favourite: "every time you do this you perturb the very laws of nature. Nature is rather fond of its laws and so decides to perturb you right back. Roll on this table to see what happens." and make the table include the above alongside a few other things and maybe a roll on the wild magic table.

In the end I enjoy ingenuity but the role of DM gives you a lot of latitude to... handle... those who believe they found a loophole.

[-] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It goes off but doesn't heal you because the text specifically says

The touch of your shadow-wreathed hand can siphon life force from others to heal your wounds.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

That's flavour text.

The touch of your shadow-wreathed hand can siphon life force from others to heal your wounds. Make a melee spell attack against a creature within your reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d6 necrotic damage, and you regain hit points equal to half the amount of necrotic damage dealt. Until the spell ends, you can make the attack again on each of your turns as an action.

You are, in fact, a creature within your reach.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

You're a valid target for the spell, but the heal doesn't trigger cause the target isn't someone other than yourself.

[-] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

But it doesn't say, "only from others."

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

The mere act of including "from others" is all the proof required.

If Self was valid for the Siphon effect they wouldn't have had to mention it at all, since Self is automatically included as a valid target unless otherwise stated.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I think that’s kind of a stretch. The range of the spell is explicitly “Self”, and the heal triggers off a hit dealing damage to the target.

If this kind of cherry-picking clauses worked, the Paladin “Breaking your Oath” sidebar would be meaningless. All an impenitent Paladin player needs to do is point to the first sentence of the Sacred Oath feature that says “[…] you swear the oath that binds you as a paladin forever.”

Also the fact that a redundant statement is included is not proof of anything. I’ve fielded similar arguments with someone who thought the “Casting the spell doesn’t remove it from your list of prepared spells.” clause in the Spellcasting feature of prepared casters was proof that all other methods of spellcaster deleted the spell after it was cast. Trying to explain that “A spell is a discrete magical effect, a single shaping of the magical energies” is not the same as one-time use only, the same way a sword being a discrete object doesn’t mean swinging the sword is a one time thing, is exhausting.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

If we're going strict RAW, the "from others" clause only affects life force, not HP. Spells don't do more than what they say, after all. So you can take HP from others, but not life force.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Thanks to our natural language rules we can easily interpret Life Force as a synonym for HP

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

And it doesn't say "you cannot fly", yet it doesn't make you capable of flying. This means nothing: The spell does only what it says it does and it quite clearly says "you can siphon life force from others".

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this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2023
364 points (94.2% liked)

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