this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2023
29 points (83.7% liked)

Star Trek

1377 readers
1 users here now

This is the lemmy.ml Star Trek community.

There are many other Star Trek communities around the Lemmyverse, and there is a Lemmy instance entirely dedicated to the subject (startrek.website).

Here are links to some of those other communities:

/c/[email protected]: Serious, in-depth Star Trek discussion

/c/[email protected]: Star Trek memes and shitposts

/c/[email protected]: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name ("post all the nonsense you want")

/c/[email protected]: These are the voyages of the Starship Lenin.

/c/[email protected]: General Star Trek news and discussion

/c/[email protected]: Another general-purpose community

/c/[email protected]: Off-topic chat

/c/[email protected]: Star Trek Online discussion, tips, and tricks

/c/[email protected]: For fans of the Greatest Generation and Greatest Trek podcasts

/c/[email protected]: Meme-ory Alpha, another meme community

/c/[email protected]: Star Trek Memes & Shitposts

/c/[email protected]: A community for all things Star Trek.

/c/star_[email protected]: A Star Trek community where you’re free share your opinions about all things Trek.

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

The challenge of storytelling in the Star Trek universe and the Star Wars universe are very different challenges. In Star Wars, the main story has already been told. From Episode I to Episode IX, you have the Skywalker Saga, and all other stories told on the side must be, in some way, in service of either that or to the broader events in the galaxy that bring it about. Every story in the SWEU service that main storyline, and even when they stray off to try to have their own story, they always come back to it again and again, eventually becoming part of it themselves.

Now, this isn’t a bad thing. One thing that has made this work for so long is how good the writers - especially Dave Filoni - seems to be at fleshing out the universe in which the SWEU exists. The man has a gift for worldbuilding. Not only does it take place in a civilization seemingly tens (or possibly hundreds) of thousands of years more advanced than ours, the whole civilization occupies most of the galaxy and regularly travels around it rather quickly, as opposed to how, in Star Trek, the galaxy is still a very big place, and traveling long distances like they often do in Star Wars could take years, if not decades. And it’s got a lot more characters than we see in Star Trek because there’s a lot more shows that have gone a lot more places and done a lot more things. An entire galactic rebellion didn’t just happen when some farm kid had his aunt and uncle murdered and picked up an old laser sword that some hermit gave him. and the entire Galactic Empire didn’t just go away when they lost power. There’s a lot to explore there, story-wise. And they have. That’s the problem.

It’s just too much all at once, and people get exhausted just trying to keep up. In Disney’s never-ending thirst for profits, they just kept pumping out content, and people kept gobbling it up. It’s not that it wasn’t pretty great stuff, it’s that they released so much and have told so many stories and have covered so much ground that people are kind of getting tired of it. It’s not necessarily that people are bored or that the content isn’t good, it’s that Star Wars, itself, is starting to wear thin. And there’s still plenty more story to tell, but people need a break. It’s been non-stop Star Wars content since 2001, and for the last few years, it’s been a deluge of it. It’s just too much for a lot of people, and it ruins how special Star Was is if it’s so common that’s impossible to avoid.

Star Trek can like that, too, though. If too many shows are coming out at once people will lose interest because it becomes less interesting and special, even if the quality is still high. Sometimes the quality suffers as a result, too. I think both franchises could benefit from turning down the firehose of content releases to more of a steady stream.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

No offense meant, because you raise a lot of good points on why Star Trek works as a setting, but I fundamentally disagree with the Star Wars take here. Historically, Star Wars has centered around the Skywalker saga for Personal (George Lucas) and Business (Disney) reasons, not creative ones.

Star Wars offers an excellent setting with a framework to discuss ethics and morality baked directly into the universe. Stories like Knights of the Old Republic have shown that you can get away from the main Saga and still tell an engaging story rooted in the universe that Saga created. Tons of old Legends content didn't tie directly into the original films and were excellent.

Andor has also shown that it's also just that bad writing is what leads to IP burnout. I couldn't finish Book of Boba Fett or Mandalorian season 3, but have watched Andor 3 times.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

No offense met, because you raise a lot of good points on why Star Trek works as a setting, but I fundamentally disagree with the Star Wars take here. Historically, Star Wars has centered around the Skywalker saga for Personal (George Lucas) and Business (Disney) reasons, not creative ones.

I don’t see the point of disagreement here, although this could bear more exploring as to what, exactly, you mean.

Star Wars offers an excellent setting with a framework to discuss ethics and morality baked directly into the universe. Stories like Knights of the Old Republic have shown that you can get away from the main Saga and still tell an engaging story rooted in the universe that Saga created. Tons of old Legends content didn’t tie directly into the original films and were excellent.

yeah, sure. they just haven’t yet (not in official-can media like the shows/films), and I think that’s a huge shame. it’s certainly where they should go next and a great way to breathe new life into the franchise.

Andor has also shown that it’s also just that bad writing is what leads to IP burnout.

kinda, but I think what Andor mostly did was show that a SW could survive both a massive tonal shift and making a show marketed solely towards adults that was much more violent and contained mature themes that was beyond what children could deal with. Also, it finally addresses complex issues such as the internal machinations of the ESB, and comes off as more sci-fi than sci-fantasy. It’s not a “fun” show. It’s dark and mean. And you already know everyone’s going to die horribly. And it’s awesome because it’s made with no restraints.

Trek tried this with DIS and PIC, and it blew up in their faces— mostly because Trek isn’t that kind of universe.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

My point was that Star Wars has been tied to the same characters for personal and business reasons, not inherently creative ones defined by the setting. The difference IMO is mostly down to who the creators and executives involved in the process of each IP have been, not the actual merits of the respective IP's worlds.

If Gene Roddenberry has decided that Next Generation had to be about Kirk and his crew, and then Paramount also mandated all it's other Star Trek projects to be about TOS crew, we'd be having the same discussions about "why can't Start Trek get away from the original series?" even though it has nothing to do with the setting.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My point was that Star Wars has been tied to the same characters for personal and business reasons, not inherently creative ones defined by the setting. The difference IMO is mostly down to who the creators and executives involved in the process of each IP have been, not the actual merits of the respective IP’s worlds.

oh, well, I’m sure that’s true. and I wasn’t arguing that (at least the current) creators/creatives were sticking to it for lack of imagination, just that one of the problems is that they are for whatever reason and that stepping away from it to focus on another period would greatly benefit everyone. I think we agree on this, it’s just that I was, perhaps, unclear in my criticism or what or even who, precisely, I was criticizing.

I also realize that the decision is not that of the creatives alone, but can be stifled by the stubbornness of the studios. but I don’t really think the likes of Filoni and Favraeu et al are so limited any more, having earned a lot of creative freedoms with their repeated successes. sure, there may be issues related to getting the rights to some of the stories, but I believe there’s genuine interest in developing the previous eras. I thin it was at the SW Con in March where Filoni laid out his new planned timeline, and there was Old Republic and High Republic eras noted on it that he planned to start writing stories for. So, I’m hopeful.

load more comments (6 replies)