WetShaving
This is a community of enthusiasts, hobbyists and artisans who enjoy a traditional wet shave: brush, soap, and safety or straight razor. We are a part of the WetShaving community found on Reddit, Discord, and IRC.
New subscribers welcome!
Please visit our wiki, which is always and forever a work in progress.
Check out these alternative front-ends for this server:
https://gem.wetshaving.social/ - a nice modern interface
https://old.wetshaving.social/ - designed to look like old.reddit.com
Our sister Mastodon instance is https://wetshaving.social/.
Community Rules
Rule 1 - Behaviour and Etiquette
-
Be Respectful. Do not bully, flame, or harass others.
-
Malicious comments are not allowed but heated discussion and salty banter is okay.
-
Low effort replies and complaints about content will be removed.
Rule 2 - Content Guidelines
-
Mail Calls, Simple Questions, and SOTD posts belong in the recurring weekly threads.
-
Posts must have sufficient content to generate a meaningful discussion.
-
Images, links, or videos must include additional text that summarizes the topic.
Rule 3 - Reviews and Disclosure
-
Use [First Impressions] in the title if your experience with the product is limited.
-
Use the [Review] in the title if you can provide comprehensive details with enough familiarity to answer follow-up questions.
-
Disclose how the product being reviewed was acquired (e.g., PIF, loan, or purchase). If the product was provided to you directly by the maker or vendor free of charge or at a discount, you must disclose this fact even if the item will later be returned to the maker or vendor.
Rule 4 - Advertising
-
Vendors are to keep marketing within the biweekly Deals/New Products threads.
-
Non-vendors may post topics about products if it will foster a compelling discussion.
-
Do not solicit donations or share fundraisers without mod approval.
Rule 5 - Inappropriate Content
-
All NSFW/L content must request mod approval and be flaired appropriately.
-
Non-shaving related NSFW/L content is not allowed.
Rule 10 - Moderator Discretion
- The rules may not apply perfectly to every situation. The mods have final discretion.
view the rest of the comments
Black Watchday 13 Nov 2024
Black Watch is an all time favourite of mine. I like to combine it with Cerberus, Braeburn or other warm fruity fragrances, but this is trickhole week for me, so I'm trickholing it. It never disappoints.
The stainless R41 Gs is a heavy beast and my favourite version of the R41 family. It has that heft that inspires a (sometimes misguided) sense of quality like a good tool. It's one of my favourite DE razors on par with my Wolfies. This and the Rocca are underrated products IMO and it might have to do with Mühle's awkward positioning in the shave market. The bulk of their offering is this annoying combination of a cheap product with a luxury packaging. For example, if you go on their website, the majority of their razors are cheap zamac heads with expensive (pretty) handles. This brush is the same, pretty handle and lacklustre knot. My travel synth is similar with a nice folding handle and an unpleasant knot. I don't get it. Mühle is a small family-run business, they could easily run in the "German Quality" direction, this razor and the Rocca are proof they can make quality products at good prices. Instead they compete with cheap mass produced products by attaching pretty handles to their cheap mass produced product. I think they may be stuck and unable to advertise their good razors (stainless steel and titanium) as quality worth a few extra Euros while still praising their "high quality" zamac razors which cost the almost the same despite a fancy porcelain handle. How do you tell your customers to choose between quality and luxury when many would expect the two to go hand in hand?
In their words, stainless steel vs zamac (which they refuse to name, so they call it chrome instead. This is close to dishonest IMO since chrome is only the plating on the zamac):
From this marketing speak, how would someone who doesn't know that chrome is just a plating and that the underlying zamac breaks when you drop the razor or corrodes away when wear (micro)cracks the plating on the threads understand that the stainless steel razor head is worth a few extra Euros if you care about durability? Both are "extra durable", and the chrome one is described as prettier, and also of superlative quality if you believe this text.
Wow. Great take and I honestly agree 100%!
However, I think there's a socialization component to it too - men, especially in (East) Germany, are rather reluctant to spend too much money on grooming tools and something for their self care. They can justify buying expensive tools and cars or motorcycles, but when it comes to their grooming the bare minimum has to suffice. "I can't justify spending so much money on a safety razor!" is a common sentiment. I know since that was how I used to think before finally having an epiphany after shaving with your Rocca that you lent me. Mühle as well as Merkur could totally focus on high quality materials, especially the former: have an inexpensive line of Zamac razors under your nom brand, everything Mühle will be at least aluminium heads on fancy material handles. That makes wetshaving accessible for students and folks with a low income while keeping your brand identity as a luxury item. Because if we're being honest, a well made safety razor (or straight razor, or shaving brush) is a luxury item. I also don't see the point of putting Zamac heads on porcelain or ebonite handles that look really awesome. Worst case scenario, someone has a broken and unusable razor at home that has cost them 200+€.
Good point about quality and luxury often not going hand in hand despite the public expectation that it does. I personally think we might need to push companies in the right direction by voting with our wallets: if we only buy products from materials that will stand the test of time, maybe then companies produce more of those and less Zamac crap. Shame to hear about the brush though. It looks so great, but a lackluster knot in an awesome handle is still a below average brush. I can relate with the Cooldog brushes I used to own: very cheap synthetic knots set at a very low loft, making it look almost like a make-up brush and coins that were only glued in with a cheap adhesive sticker so they fell out. In fact, I enjoyed my cheap RazoRock brushes way more than these (supposedly) premium products! So I just put them away.
I both agree and don't. Yes, in the sense that nobody needs a stainless steel safety razor for over €100 if a brass Tech will cost a fraction. On the other hand, nobody would call it luxury if you shave with Mach3 cartridges, but those are more expensive than the "luxury" stainless steel razor in just a few years. So it's all kind of messed up in my opinion.
Yeah, this one gets to me. The meissner series they sell is a porcelain handle zamac razor that might just break after a some years of use because the threads wear through the plating for €655, and a brush that has the same lame knot as my brush and costs €675. I don't understand.
I see where you're coming from and I think we're generally on the same page. There are also expensive cartridge razors with fancy handles or vibration or heated blades, but no one from our hobby would call a cartridge razor luxurious. The cartridge prices are ridiculous and I think that's what pushed a lot of us into traditional wetshaving: the promise of saving money while finally enjoying to scrape those unwanted hairs off. Of course that was long before we fell down this rabbit hole and are now firmly into the sunk cost fallacy...
Yep, we wouldn't necessarily need a 100+€/£/$ stainless steel razor due to all the vintage brass razors still around in great condition for a quarter of that price. Yet if we actually save that amount and make such a purchase, we expect rock solid quality that should outlast us in the way that vintage razors outlasted their previous owners. Sadly this often isn't the case. Anecdotal evidence, but my Stando Perun really pisses me off in that regard. A 100+€ stainless steel razor simply shouldn't catch rust, period. 😞
Oh yes, the Mühle series in cooperation with Meissener Porzellan is mind-blowing in a negative sense. These are probably more or less collectors items, but I still believe that the fun thing about wetshaving is that you have this collector's obsession aspect of the hobby while actually being able to use your precious items for the intended purpose! However, as you said - that shouldn't be done with this precious porcelain handle razor, since it has just a Zamac head. What an absolute (cruel) joke! Meissen really creates porcelain art and then it's honoured with one of the cheapest materials possible for razor construction (the others being plastic and bakelite, who at least don't corrode easily).
A good contrary example to this might be PantaRei brushes from Italy. Some of their brushes are custom order, made from expensive woods and/or ceramics and most even hand painted... yet you also get a quality horse/boar/badger or synthetic knot in 28 to 30 mm! And Mühles supposed "gold standard" synthetic fibre only goes up to 25 mm as their XL option. Weird. I think they could do lots of things right, e.g. the R41 design was quickly gaining notoriety as a very aggressive shaver, but it's also a very unique design. It's cool that they even came out with the GS model after the success of the Rocca.
I apologize for rambling way too much, but you brought up so many valid points and instigated such a meaningful discussion that I wanted to share my two cents, but instead dropped my whole bank account on you. Sorry 😅
Yes, we are on the same page, I think.
Yeah, this one is infuriating. I'm sorry this happened to you.
Both PantaRei and Zenith could be good examples for Mühle IMO. Luxury quality, or good value.
Yeah, it really is. The GS is really well made too, tight fits, good surface quality. For a European made razor, even the price seems reasonable.
Oh please, this is exactly what we have this instance for 😊
Well, it is what it is with the Perun. I actually digged out my Greencult GC 2.0 out again today due to this. At least that one has a solid plating/finish.
Yep, considering the materials and CNC processes alone, the R41 GS is well worth its price.
Zenith makes really awesome brushes at a very fair price point. PantaRei was just my example of choice as they actually seem to care about a full luxurious product instead of a half-assed job like Mühle's brushes and I knew they also do ceramic brushes (at a third of the Mühle price even!)