this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2024
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A potential plan by Republican leaders to steal the 2024 presidential election. The plan involves delaying the certification of election results in key battleground states, potentially decreasing the overall number of electors appointed and allowing Donald Trump to win the presidency through a contingent election, whereby the House of Representatives, not the Electoral College, determines the president.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

It would be worth looking into which states have wording in their Constitutions that include "shall certify" which would make the stalling tactic a crime.

Also, anyone who voted in a state whose electors were not sent on time would have a valid civil rights case against that state's officials and they would all have standing because they were personally harmed. The number of potential lawsuits would be overwhelming and perhaps ruinous to anyone found guilty. Not sure that fear of that would be enough to stop them, but also they have to worry about losing their next election (though if it worked they might hope to be rewarded by the winning administration).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (7 children)

Realistically, even without "shall," most states carry the legal obligation in state statutes not the state constitution. The problem is that the crime is minor or will almost certainly be pardoned immediately by Trump. So even if it's "illegal," oh well. The governor refuses to certify, thereby breaking the law, Johnson still holds the deadline, the number of EC votes is lowered, Trump is declared the winner, and then the governors are pardoned and are in the good graces of the incoming POTUS.

Just to be clear, that makes everything valid and constitutional at the federal level for this plan. I don't think you're grasping how fully fucked we might be.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The Constitution only grants the President the power to pardon federal crimes. I found a nice article with the history and status of the cases against the bad actors in the last attempt here: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/where-the-fake-electors-cases-stand-in-state-court

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Meeting the federal deadline for state-level certification in almost every state is considered a ministerial duty. That means that it would only involve civil or administrative penalties, i.e., a light slap on the wrist at best. For criminal conduct, it would need to be elevated to obstruction of federal elections. This would be a federal crime and therefore pardonable.

Thanks for the link, but the plan The Nation outlined doesn't require fake electors or fraudulent documents. The only potential misdeed here is simply a failure to meet a federal deadline. It's related to the previous attempt insofar as it's an attempt to undermine American democracy, but this current plan is much more sound, involves much less legal culpability on the part of anyone involved, and generally appears to be constitutionally valid. Which is to say, the Republicans learned. The Democrats did not.

The bottom line is, overthrowing democracy is either a meaningless administrative infraction or a federal crime that will be pardoned. See the problem?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Yes, good points. I posted the comment originally because it is alarming.

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