RaisedByNarcissists: for the children of abusive parents

Hey everyone,

My name is Jennifer and I wanted to share something important with you all today. I am a postdoctoral researcher and trauma survivor. I was raised by narcissists and suffered abuse at their hands for 20+ years. I recently ran away from them and decided to tell my story and raise awareness to help others protect themselves.

Mental abuse and the dangers of narcissism are topics that affect so many lives, and we must raise awareness about them. Remember, manipulation can occur anywhere - in relationships and professional settings, so it is essential to shed light on these issues.

https://www.youtube.com/@egonextdoor

I heard this quote recently and it really resonated with me. I went no contact with my family 3 years ago and I have enough distance now that I've grown around the pain enough to be less destabilized when I miss them. But even though I miss them and struggle to fully understand that feeling sometimes, I know that if I were to ever give them another chance, this quote will live in my head to help guide the conversations and aid my judgement.

This helped me detect that I was changing my boundaries when trying to please someone recently. That tipped me off to recognizing I was people pleasing and they were toxic.

Not sure if this will help anyone else but it definitely resonated with me and helped to keep in the back of my mind as I still struggle to learn to have healthy boundaries.

Have one from me today!

I think in my case this is a combination of 2 factors: having very self-absorbed parents (I would classify one as non-N and one as N) who really just didn't give a crap about my interests or inner life most of the time, plus one symptom of my being on the spectrum is that one very specific input wire is pulled and I have trouble 'just knowing' whether somebody likes/dislikes me assuming they have any talent at pretending to be friendly and want to hide any dislike. Like I think most people have a built-in that does that for them and mine is unplugged.

Also my parents were very intelligent, and unlike a lot of Ns or N-adjacents, they were nice enough to pretend to give a crap when they were being nice, and like .......... now I can't tell when other adults of sufficient intelligence are doing it these days? and I don't even have a warm/cold sense unless they give clues, and it takes a whole lot of effort to watch for them and doesn't come naturally?

Does this make sense? It sounds like an anxiety/shame complex under a very thin veil but I promise it's not, because I don't ... really react to things in that way?? I realized over the past 5 years or so that I really just cannot temperature check people's like/dislike toward me unless they are very clear about it, like if I start to have questions about somebody I have to sit down and think it out and it still doesn't compute, and since most of the people in my daily life are (good hearted) snarky types who have been thru a lot of trauma, everybody is nice but keeps their cards close to the vest and I can never have any good sense of where I stand. It's always a big question mark. "Just talk about it" doesn't work because these people don't do that, and I suppose neither have I ever outside of a romantic relationship. (edit: and my 3ish closest friendships)

I hate this but in some sense I'm not even trying to complain, this is just how it is, people make films about this culture, it's literally because civilization has only developed this far, I guess I'm just wondering how common it is to have this exact problem after being raised by Ns, orrrr if it's maybe more the autism. K THANKS BYE

A while ago Ns gave me a farewell email i think. I don't read their emails, but the header looked like that and I accidentally read part of the header. I didn't reply.

Since then, they've been spamming me like every other day, and i've replied to none of it.

They filed a missing person report. Popo called me and told me to come down to the station. I went over the police station, showed popo ID to prove i'm not missing. It wasn't too annoying, if nothing else, it's much less annoying to talk to an officer than my Ns.

I've been belittled by an officer previously over not talking with Ns. I just made up some nonsense until the popo was satisfied.

Popo; "Why did they file a missing person report?"

me; "they're racist towards the person i'm dating and it's retaliation"

Cross posting to the rbn community on Lemmy too

clearly state your case once and then leave it at that. If the narcissist doesn’t accept it and persists, walk away

Why are we arguing with someone who’s determined to see you as the cause of everything that’s wrong in their life?

X will reach out due to being concerned. X wastes a lot of time pretending to not be 100% on Nparent's side, then tells me to go back to them for more abuse.

I get drained if I spend too much time with someone negative. With less eye contact, I hold up better it seems.

I was housed recently. Lost my place and my Npartner. Had to move back in with Nparents. Npartner was bad, but Nparents are a whole other level of bad. I was in jail for 1 day. Nparents are comparably bad as the jail. The jail didn't allow me to use my prescription meds and confined me. Npartner was more about the silence treatment and immense passive aggression.

Nparents, I have some freedom of movement, but:

severely limited freedom of movement (I'm 30, have to ask permission, permission which may be arbitrarily withheld, not allowed to use public transport (I can’t drive, disability), have to sneakily use meds, constant insults, fat shaming (my bmi is 20), being told everyone they know hates me, constant threats of being evicted, threatening to call cops on me, pretty limited food despite there being enough food in the house, not allowed to go to food bank, soup kitchen, have previously thrown away my meds, trying to discourage me from having privacy, constant worry about the internet/electronics being monitored, strict speaking requirements when I’m near them, many banned conversation topics, dress code, strong discouragement of contact with friends/extended family, enforced eating etiquette, not allowed to displays symptoms of my disability (when it acts up, I’m required to try to hide it – then they later chastise me by saying ‘see, i told you, you have no symptoms), prohibiting anti-perspirant, required to ‘cleaning’ my armpits multiple times per day with some kind of chemical that burns, threats of being forced to wax my armpits (i’m a male), prohibited from doing calming activities like meditation, requirement to be ‘productive’, constantly told I’m not productive, requirement to agree with them in ‘conversation’ when they are mocking homeless/minorities/disabled people, disallowing me to use accessibility devices, the fact that they freely walk into 'my' room regardless of whether or not i'm changing (was sexually assaulted by them previously), Nbrother has previously approached my friends to try to turn them against me, and more.

Nmom occasionally pretends to be understanding. I spoke to her about living in a homeless shelter and just storing my stuff at her house. Thoroughly chastised.

All of this is 1 week in. I'm definitely going to be evicted from here. Nmom is very unhappy that I receive welfare and has already begun taking action to cause financial dependence on her. Any advice here? I plan to refuse to voluntarily give access to my bank account or my electronics - I plan to change majors passwords every week. She will demand control over my finances, it has happened in the past.

Nparents definitely causes fleas. When I’m out and about it’s much harder to talk to randoms like cashiers. When I speak to someone and they’re not mean to me, I’m surprised the whole time. The whole Nparent experience strongly encourages some kind of mutism.

They'd asked 'why didn't you do that?' I'd explain, then get in even more trouble for explaining. I thought they wanted an answer? Am i suppose to just say nothing?

Me: do you think they're justified, both Nparents, in banning me from communicating with you (FM uncle)?

The reply:

They were still and always will be your parents, and I the doting uncle.. But some, seem threatened by this. I have done no harm to either of your parents. In fact your Mom had resumed communicating with me from March last year, ever since Nana came to live with me.
Perhaps they have offered their reasons to you, for this banning.

My other sisters have adult kids with whom I communicate almost daily.

Seems your parents became unhappy when I did not inform them that you were communicating with me, over element.
Naturally, I wanted to assist you as best as possible by even inviting you to come to brazil. I'm flummoxed really with their attitude.

Now that you back home, I hope that all the necessary steps are taken to get your place back.

Mom is no longer communicating with me, in fact she has attempted to vilify me with the rest of my family, here in brazil... they have no desire to heed her wishes to end our strong relationship

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Some analysis; notice how in his whole reply, he sorta addressed my original question, but he doesn't directly and sorta beats around the bush. He throws in a 'They were still and always will be your parents'. This, 'now that you're back home, your [...] safe', couldn't be less true, and they should know that based on my previous complaints.

When I was a little kid my mother (passive agressive bipolar narcissist) opened her heart to me. Keep in mind, I am her first of two children with different fathers and she wasn't married. She told me how she never felt loved by her parents, siblings, or the men in her life. She said she thought by having a baby she would get someone who had no choice but to love her.

When my half-brother and I were 13 and 11, she abandoned us in a trailer on a dirt road. She had found a boyfriend who was also her boss at work. She went home with him at night and rarely came home.

The electricity got turned off because she didn't pay the bill more times than I can count. The refrigerator and shelves were empty most of the time. My brother and I had to go fishing, steal corn from the fields, and collect returnable bottles from the roads to eat. Some days we got nothing.

She would come home for a week or so every few months when she was fighting with her boyfriend. Then she got groceries for us.

Now I am middle aged. I live on the opposite side of the planet and don't talk to her.

My brother lives a few miles from her and barely talks to or visits.

Her boyfriend died years ago.

She thought only of herself when we were young and needed parents and now she is lonely.

Sandy (Ngrandma) declares that the next time her grandchildren come over she's going to reiterate the house rules, point out the two rules plaques she already has up, and put up another ten. The other members cheer her on. Much later, her granddaughter chooses a university she would need to drive to, instead of getting a ride with her mother. Sandy demands to have input into her granddaughter's school choice before she'll hand over the promised money. One of the commenters escalates with a proposed plan of action so long that it spans two screens. The gist of it is that Sandy is correct to take a hard line with her entitled "pissant of a GD," and should give her granddaughter the money only if the girl agrees to get a technical or nursing degree and presents her GPA to Sandy for approval. Sandy should keep the money in her own name, refuse to pay for books and supplies in order to keep her granddaughter frugal, and send funds directly to the school rather than allowing any to pass through her granddaughter's hands. It's an extraordinary demonstration of punitive control over a girl who insists upon choosing her own university. The other members agree that it's an excellent scheme, and Sandy resolves to put it into action.

from http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/estranged-parents-confront-reasons.html

Nfam got together and spent 2+ hrs complaining about me and discussing whether they will evict me late at night. But not to me, to each other. They made sure they were yelling about it through the entire house, so i heard them. For context i'm disabled. Next day they left this note on the fridge:

They may be incapable of knowing. There are no magic words that will penetrate their defenses.

The good news is that you're free. You can stop now. If you need permission, I'll give it to you: You are hereby allowed to stop trying to get through to your wilfully deaf parents.

Please stop.

From https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html

I've been paying attention over the years and have seen a slow escalation of aggression by the Ns. It just dawned on me that if this keeps going up, they might actually kill me, like stab me to death.

have no plan to ever delete these posts and am not suicidal, if it ever comes about that I died from suicide or something, you know who did it! Similarly, if my posts are ever all deleted by this account, you know who did it!

What should I do/say if they press for "what errands"?

For calls, I plan to say counselor or pastor.

I can throw in a "needed to stretch my legs" periodically

My parents are atheism lol. When i'm pestered about why i'm sorta religious, I tell them the most obnoxious statement I've heard from church. Ex, "why are you going there to pray again?" Me; "bc jesus died for our sins, which means that like the muslims, christians should be praying x times per day, bc blah blah" and they get bored and leave me alone immediately lol.

Just wondering. My Nparents liked trump the moment he said 'muslims bad'

GC has, apparently, for the past few yrs, been LC with Nparents. Including LC when with them in person. GC recommended Ndad gets a therapist and he has. Therapist told Ndad that his family sucks from the sounds of it, and he announced to me today that GC seems awfully rude. I've never heard him say anything negative about GC. Overall, this has resulted in me receiving slightly better treatment than pre therapist. Ndad for a few years now has been more open to talking with others about supposed 'private problems'

#Acronyms and RBN Terminology#

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##A

ACoN - Adult Child of Narcissist(s)

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##B

BIL - Brother-In-Law

BD - Bipolar Disorder

BPD - Borderline Personality Disorder

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##D

DAE - Does/Did Anyone Else

DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. Common tactics used by abusers. More info here and here.

DoNF - Daughter of Narcissistic Father

DoNM - Daughter of Narcissistic Mother

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##E

Edad/Emom - Enabler dad/enabler mom

Egg Donor - Alternate name for abusive/narcissistic mother

Extinction burst - Activity, usually frantic, before someone gives up on an unrewarded behavior.

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##F

FLEAS - Frightening Lasting Effects of Abuse. What are FLEAS?

FM - Flying Monkey - This is a term that most likely was inspired by "This Wizard of Oz" (as in, the Wicked Witch's Flying Monkeys). When we talk about them in the sub, we are discussing people, family, friends, etc. that are working on behalf of our abusers in order to get information (to pass on to our abusers), guilt us into continuing/resuming contact, justifying our abusers' actions, etc.

FOC - Family of Choice

FOG - Fear, Obligation and Guilt. Common feelings experienced by people in a relationship with someone who suffers from a personality disorder. More info here.

FOO - Family of Origin

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##G

Gaslighting - Gaslighting is a form of mental abuse in which information is twisted or spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity. More info here.

GC - Golden Child

Ghosting - Gradually going from LC to NC without making a "formal announcement" to our abusers.

Grey Rocking/Grey Rock Technique - "Do not respond with any emotion when they try and provoke you... In order to go Gray Rock, when you must engage with the Narcissist, only talk about boring things: your laundry, getting your oil changed, doing your taxes. Do not talk about anything that will make them jealous or in any way encourages them to cause drama." This method may be useful when cutting off or reducing contact to an abuser is not possible. Read more about this technique here: http://www.lovefraud.com/2012/02/10/the-gray-rock-method-of-dealing-with-psychopaths/

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###H

Hoovering - Narcissistic hoovering refers to attempts made by the narcissist to bring you back into their life – often after a period of distance on your part. Especially if this is a new behaviour for you, the narcissist might hold off for a short while to see if you're really serious about creating that distance. During the process, the narcissist abuser may employ virtually any means necessary to obtain their desired result: the return of the victim to the abusive relationship. These ploys can include attempting to put the victim on a guilt-trip, generating false promises of changed behavior, false promises of too-good-to-be-true gifts, begging, screaming at the victim, use of relationship shame, making threats, insincerely accepting blame for the failure of the relationship, or even using others (flying monkeys) to help persuade the victim to return to the relationship. The abusive narcissist is on a no-holds-barred campaign to convince the victim to return to the abuse and their abusive clutches.

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##J

J.A.D.E. - Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain. To avoid circular conversations, don't JADE. (source: Out of the Fog)

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##L

LC - Low Contact. Technique that reduces contact to the abuser in terms of intensity or frequency.

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##N

N or Narc - Narcissist/Narcissistic

NC - No Contact

NMiL/NFiL - Narcissistic mother-in-law/father-in-law

NMom/NDad - Narcissistic mother/father

Nsupply - The energy or emotional hit that a Narcissist gets from creating an emotional response in their victims

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##S

SC - Structured Contact. Technique that permits contact with the abuser within defined boundaries and rules. This may be a useful alternative when LC or NC are not possible or not desirable.

SG - Scapegoat

SIL - Sister-In-Law

SoNM - Son of Narcissistic Mother

SoNF - Son of Narcissistic Father

Sperm Donor - Alternate name for abusive/narcissistic father

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##T

TW - Trigger Warning

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##V

VLC - Very low contact. Like LC, this technique reduces contact with an abuser down to the bare minimum.

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##W

WOES - Walking on eggshells. Having to be overly careful or quiet (literally or figuratively) so as not to upset or enrage an abuser.

All permutations of relationships exist

Just needed a space to vent a bit. I’m currently sitting here (I should be napping while my baby sleeps) watching messages roll by in a private family chat planning a surprise birthday for my brother. On my birthday.

I’ve been struggling a lot more with my family during covid, and my partner and I have been extremely selective over everything we do/bring our baby to. This has meant missing out on family stuff, which has royally pissed off my nmom. She’s the type to trash talk behind your back under the guise of “caring”, but has been spreading flat lies about us for the past year.

Now my brother’s and my birthdays are 5 days apart. My sister (who I’m currently NC with because of a covid-related fight) is unvaccinated and we refuse to be around her. My family knows this. She and her kids couldn’t make it to the first date my SIL had planned, so they moved it to the following weekend. Specifically? My birthday. My nmom picked the date. They moved it to my birthday to include the person that they know I will choose not to be around. They’re also planning to make sure my other brother and his fiancée, who I haven’t seen in almost a year, can be there. And I’m sitting here waiting for just one person (in a group of 12) to say “…hey wait, isn’t that puddlejumper’s birthday?”

I’m just having a hard time with this one. Like I said I’ve been struggling with them for a while and honestly probably would have chosen to skip the event even if my sister weren’t going, but this just feels like such a punch in the gut.

Anyway, thanks for listening. My partner and I will do something fun with our daughter on my birthday. Can’t stop thinking about how we’d never treat her like this. Sigh.