this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2024
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submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 
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[–] [email protected] 199 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

You had one person trying to listen, keep track and respond earnestly to each point of a serial liar, and struggling to do it.

The serial liar would make one statement making light of the last thing that was said and then confidently go off on whatever they wanted.

We've seen before that Americans want a confident but evil self-serving idiot over a tepid but smart, compassionate leader.

Next morning Edit: My one hope is that the news of Grants Pass, EPA SCOTUS decisions show the real consequences of electing Trump.

[–] [email protected] 66 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Gish Gallop, I don't know why they even try against that crap

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

a tepid but smart, compassionate leader.

Is that really what you saw on that stage tonight? I saw a guy who lost his car keys because he was so angry at those kids on his lawn. Whether or not the narrative on Biden is fair, he just totally legitimized it.

I get what you're saying about debating with Trump, or any Republican really. Debate is a lot easier when you care nothing for the truth. Overcoming that is the Democratic candidate's job. That's what Biden signed up to do. That's what the Democrats picked him to do. A candidate who can't function in that situation has no business on that stage. There are a great many Democrats who could have wiped the floor with Trump.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There are a great many Democrats who could have wiped the floor with Trump.

AOC would fucking shred him

[–] [email protected] 36 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I like AOC. Unfortunately the majority of people, due to innate racism or misogyny, won’t vote for her. One of the only reasons Biden is there is they know he’s the most likely to get votes from all over the country.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, he is smart, and showed great intelligence, but in this instance severely underperformed in his ability to communicate clearly, like someone having a panic attack at a presentation. If you read a transcript of the debate it would be clear who is a leader and who is a clown. The raspy cold voice compounded things but those are all superficial elements, not on the substance (which Trump had nothing but lies and snide remarks).

I agree this isn't what any Democrat including Biden wanted in the debate and AOC, Sanders would be way better orators. I'm saying regardless of tonight, Americans have picked before a charismatic comic in Reagan over a tepid, but smart, compassionate leader like Carter.

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[–] [email protected] 156 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Honestly I don't know how much better I could do than biden in an argument with trump. His look of just complete confusion as trump just continued to say complete nonsense was pretty much the same look I had listening to it.

[–] [email protected] 77 points 4 months ago (2 children)

really fair, it’s certainly an uncommon skill but it’s definitely a skill we should be able to expect of our literal leaders

[–] [email protected] 73 points 4 months ago (7 children)

Imagine downvoting "I think the President should be good at public speaking"

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That’s pretty much been the playbook since day one, just shotgun blasts complete bullshit left and right, it’s the equivalent of verbal chaff. Misdirect, confuse, and trip up the opponent so that they have to waste time refuting your BS than actually talking about the facts.

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[–] [email protected] 125 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Thank fuck I'm not American. Now, if you'd excuse me, I must get ready for the potential imminent arrival of fascism in about 2 days in my country (France). Can't wait to see the US fall as well! Wow! What a wonderful fucking world awaits us, huh? 💀

[–] [email protected] 39 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Shall we both bring out the guillotines? Or should start at setting things on fire? As an American, I'm not sure how your French protesting works, but I'm willing to learn.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 months ago (1 children)

As someone living in the UK, I'd also like to learn from the French

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 4 months ago

omg twinningggggggg 👯‍♀️

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[–] [email protected] 95 points 4 months ago (6 children)

cynically i feel the DNC might just dig in their heels and hope people memory hole this. because jesus fuck i sure want to, that was horrifying

[–] [email protected] 43 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

At this point what I think is happening is Joe has one of those old age bugs except this one specifically makes the brain to mouth communication issues that come with a stutter a lot worse.

Because communication seems to always be this guy's biggest stumbling block, if this were just a report card comparison there wouldn't be a race, he's obviously still a competent guy as old as he is, the problem is that something's going on that makes it way harder for him to adequately communicate that whenever he needs to.

That's really the only way I can self reason why he then proceeded to be completely fine in the much lower pressure environment of his after debate rally.

Edit: report card not credit card, although personally I'm willing to bet that Joe's credit score is way better than Donny's too

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I only got to see the closing statements. Biden looked worn down. Unconfident. Soft spoken. I could barely understand what he was saying and I had to turn on closed captioning.

Then Trump starts talking...and it's all bullshit, but God if he doesn't sound good spewing it.

America is fucked. The world is fucked. We're all gonna die. Buckle in.

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[–] [email protected] 93 points 4 months ago (15 children)

To anyone thinking, “We surived one term of Trump. How bad can another one be?”

Very bad, as John Oliver points out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYwqpx6lp_s

[–] [email protected] 44 points 4 months ago (8 children)

He said he'd be a dictator in day 1. How many dictators ever gave up power voluntarily? He's going full fascist jan 21 if he wins.

This could literally be the last real election the US ever has.

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[–] [email protected] 75 points 4 months ago (27 children)

To be fair Biden has had a stutter for all his life. How quiet he was and with everything going on it didn't look good though. I wish we could have different candidates. I'm not sure if this will change anyone's vote or not though.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

It for sure will, republicans have been ripping critical thinking out from the educational system since Reagan. In fact, it looks like they got a hold of journalists first.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 4 months ago (1 children)

it looks like they got a hold of journalists

Republicans understood that that they must control the news in order to control the people. Problem is that they made the "news" into a dumpster of lies. They are now going after education. Idiocracy, here we come.

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 4 months ago (35 children)

I love the part where the democratic leadership made sure there were no viable alternatives during the primary.

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 4 months ago

We're so fuckin cooked lmao

[–] [email protected] 56 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Trump is the perfect representative of the US tourists we see here in Europe.

Not all, of course, because you don't notice the quiet / decent ones. (Hey, just like the election , huh)

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yo, what kind of sick joke are y'all forcing your elderly from the closed ward to participate in?

Just ease their life for as long as viable and take care of them.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 months ago (3 children)

It's starting to feel like elder abuse.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 4 months ago (7 children)

Lol yeah pretty much. Just got round to watching the highlights today and what a joke. Nobody even bothers to mention democracy or freedom any more because now its pure politics. It's been perfected to the point that it finally bears no resemblance to human nature whatsoever.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 4 months ago (11 children)

You forgot the golf argument they had towards the end

[–] [email protected] 102 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Trump is the only guy who would bury his ex-wife on his own golf course just so that he could continue to cheat on her.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago

trust me i wish i could forget

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 4 months ago (9 children)

Democrats are handing Trump another term on a silver platter. But I don't expect them to do much soul searching if it happens. I expect them to just shift the blame onto everything else.

Swing voters and those who haven't decided yet often make the difference. I don't believe for a second they will turn out in droves for Biden. He is not the guy. If he's like this now, what's he going to be like in 4 years time?

If the Dems had a young firebrand type as a presidential candidate who could really take Trump to task, I think they'd walk the election.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago (15 children)

This whole night was so many layers of exhausting, but probably not for the reasons you think... No rational, serious person was expecting Biden to Willy Wonka front somersault into this debate? it was going to be what this was, the only true surprise was probably the volume of his voice (which they chalk up to a cold, okay fine, I guess) and actually how well he did quickly processing and responding to trump's gish gallop and unchecked stream of consciousness mistruth firehose with little help from the impotent moderators for the majority of the night.

The people in this country, in their immediate reaction to this debate, demonstrate that they just fundamentally lack the focus, empathv and frankly basic intelligence to process the substance of this or any debate. On average, we respond solely to voice pitch, tonality, body language and facial expressions, like a still developing toddler... Or a dog.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

I don’t know if you missed the part where he brought up “rapist immigrants” when trying to answer a question about abortion that should have been a layup and was absolutely key to this debate being meaningful to voters who are confused, apathetic, or considering voting 3rd party, especially those in swing states.

That was also very unexpected, highly disappointing, and totally unrelated to his tone or volume. No amount of moderation could have helped that.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago

On average, we respond solely to voice pitch, tonality, body language and facial expressions, like a still developing toddler…

You wouldn’t believe how close you are.

[…Researches] recruited 684 Swiss students and asked them to rate pairs of politicians who had run against each other in the 2002 French parliamentary elections. Based solely on black-and-white photos of the candidates, they had to say who was more competent and by what degree. There were 57 pairs in all, and each volunteer rated just one.

They found that the students’ competence judgments predicted the actual winners of the run-offs with a 72% accuracy.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/voters-use-child-like-judgments-when-judging-political-candidates

[A] group of children would be able to predict the outcome of elections in another country, based only on photos of the candidates […] is exactly what a recent study in the journal Science has found.

Swiss children as young as five years can predict which candidates are more likely to win French parliamentary elections.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-look-of-a-winner/

The children were just as good at predicting election results as the grown-ups were;

(first article again)

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 4 months ago (3 children)

To everyone who has downvoted me both here and on Reddit for saying "I think Biden is too old to run in 2024", I have two things to say: the first of them is "I hope you take advantage of this opportunity to wake up to your own biases", and the second one is "Fuck you".

You have been eating up every single tought-terminating cliche put in circulation by the elites of your party and parroting it online not just when it did serve your ideology or your electoral success, but also when it was just a cover for incompetent fools looking over their own asses and the hierarchies they form a part of. Many tried to warn you that just because 90% of every Conservative talking point was cooked in a meth lab by a blind monkey doesn't mean you should also close your ears when they said that the sky was blue or that Biden is old. Yes, Trump is old too, yes, THEY were arguing in bad faith, but you still were morons for refusing to even consider that it might have been a problem.

I don't have the misfortune of living in the US, but even as someone who just cares for the general stability of the world, I hope you can get the fuck out of this mess, if nothing else because contemporary Democrats don't collaborate with Latin American golpists noawadays, and because Republicans are a walking menace for green energy transition, but for the love of everything that is holy PLEASE LEARN SOMETHING from yesterday's disaster.

[–] [email protected] 70 points 4 months ago (17 children)

I honestly don't know who you think needs to hear this. Nobody wanted Biden in the first place. Everyone knows he's too old. The people downvoting you probably did it because Biden and Trump are our only options in this election. Yeah, no shit he's too old. What the fuck are we supposed to do about it now? Once he decided to run again, that was it. It would have been nice if there had been another primary, but nobody wants to challenge a sitting president in a primary, and historically it hasn't gone well.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Biden went to the 2020 primaries under the premise that he would be a single-term president, specifically to kick Trump out, and it was immediately used as a hammer against internal critics. Once president, his policies couldn't be criticized in any way (not even in a constructive one), because it was "ammo for the republicans", or else "but he's doing good things too!" (never mind that the positive Biden policies, positive as they were, were always patchworks, and never structural reforms); once the time for primaries was getting closer, the mantra became "saying that Biden is too old is a Republican talking point", and "you can't run primaries in a party with a sitting president". And perhaps there was well intentioned people who took all of these ideas at face value and believed in them, but they always refused to see the subtext: "do not question the official Democrat party line", regardless of its blind spots and conflicts of interest.

Well, what are you going to do now that the official party line has crushed all opposition year after year and the Democrats have suddenly discovered themselves in front of the abyss, sacrificing all possible alternatives for the sake of electoral success when even the people most ideologically aligned with the Old Guard are scared? Are you going to continue justify all the bad decisions that took you to this place, or are you going to analyze what the hell is wrong with the party to start reforming it immediately after the elections? I understand not wanting to have an open-air debate immediately before the presidential elections, but if you guys refuse to work it out right next, I'm just going to assume that the USA is just going to be a fascist country by 2033.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Statistically both these men should be dead. Biden beat Reagan as oldest president. Trump would be second oldest president behind Biden and beating Reagan if he won, with Trump already being older than Reagan when he left office.

This is ridiculous. They belong on an iceberg but there aren’t any left.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 4 months ago (11 children)

Just sitting here watching the US elect a man who openly buffalo buffalo buffalo wants to turn it into a theocratic dictatorship...

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