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submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 52 points 5 months ago

The article is badly researched.

This “red-green” coalition banned new reactors, announced a shutdown of existing ones by 2022

The red-green coalition did not announce the 2022 date. They (Greens/SPD) announced a soft phase-out between 2015-2020 in conjunction with building renewables. This planned shift from nuclear to renewables was reverted by Merkel (CDU = conservatives) in 2010. They (CDU) changed their mind one year later in 2011 and announced the 2022 date; but without the emphasis on replacing it with renewables. This back and forth was also quite the expensive mistake by the CDU on multiple levels, because energy corporations were now entitled financial compensation for their old reactors.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago

I'd like to add, my view. I'm from Lower Saxony and in an area nearby they tried for years to establish a temporary storage for the high nuclear waste. I never trusted the notion that the temporary storage will be save, properly maintained and kept from leaking into the local water supply.

Add to that, that we have had very old reactors who were constantly extended rather than properly renewed. Further emphasising that they won't care proper for the waste products.

Then Fukushima happened, the movement for anti nuclear gained massive momentum. I assumed of course that the lack in energy will be compensated by building renewables and subsidising homeowners to build their own solar on their roofs. Why wouldn't we, we were already talking about increasing renewables to safe the climate.

The announcement came that atom is being phased out. Big hooray for everyone who had to live next to the old plants or in areas where end-storage 'solutions' were.

Aaaaaaaand they increased the god damn coal which is way worse and really no one wanted but the lobby for coal and fossile fuels.

Now lots of ppl. on the internet always advocate for nuclear, but never address the fears of the ppl. properly.

The thing is, having a high nuclear toxic waste storage in your local area is shite just as shite it is to have the damn ash piles from coal.

If nuclear really wants to make a proper comeback, in my opinion the first thing they need to solve is the waste. We have too much of it already and have solar, wind and water (tidal preferably over damns because those fuckers can break if not maintained proper) who do not create any nasty waste and by products.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's worth noting that even counting in all the damage from Fukushima and Chernobyl and all the issues with storing nuclear waste long term (which isn't nearly as hard as people make it out to be), Nuclear is still as safe as wind and solar energy.

Now follow the link and look at the numbers for the (mostly brown) coal that replaced it (much of who's damage is caused by the nuclear materials in it's ash), and the picture is pretty damn clear. Coal kills at 1000 times the rate of nuclear.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

The real problem is that there are no renewable solutions for base load, nuclear is the best we've got. Renewables are good, but they're spotty, you can't produce renewable power on demand or scale it on demand, and storing it is also a problem. Because of that you still need something to fill in the gaps for renewables. Now your options there are coal, oil, gas, or nuclear. That's it, that's your options. Pick one.

If we can successfully get cold fusion working we'll finally have a base power generation option that doesn't have (many) downsides, but until then nuclear power is the least bad option.

So yes, if you tell them "no nuclear", you're going to get more coal and gas plants, coal because it's cheap, and gas because it's marginally cleaner than coal.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

We also shouldn't just focus on generation, but also on consumption. If we had a smarter grid that could shift demand to fit the dynamic power generation of renewables better, that should reduce the required capacity for backup power generation quite a bit.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Base load is not the same as back up power.

Base load is the lowest amount of power that gets used throughout the whole 24 hour period of a day, usually between 02:00 and 05:00. This usually runs hospitals, data centres and other critical infrastructure. The pick-ups during the day, peaking in the mornings, midday, and the biggest one in the evening is consumption by businesses, homes, schools, and basically everyone else.

This increase in demand draws more power from the generation side of the grid and drags the grid frequency down (50 Hz here in the UK & Europe, 60Hz in North America).

So the base load needs to increase output to accommodate these slower pick-ups to balance the frequency and if there is a sudden spike (like everyone boiling the kettle at halftime during a football match) then an quick response power system like hydro storage is used to quickly deliver power.

And when demand lowers, the grid frequency increases so you need to reduce the amount of power being generated else you'll burn out the equipment being used to transmit and distribute the power.

Now technically it is possible to balance the grid frequency using just renewables if you have enough of them, for example you just apply the breaks on wind turbines you don't need to generate power.

However, and this is the kicker, peak power generation from renewables like wind and solar won't align with the demand for the power.

And changing people's habits based on what power is available would be practically impossible. "Sorry lads, no football today the wind isn't blowing fast enough", "Sorry madam, we can't perform an MRI today, it's overcast and still and we've already used our carbon credits running the emergency coal/gas/diesel generators we have on site and we can't spare the power" etc.

A smarter grid helps balance the supply by better predicting the demand through data collection and work out which areas are consuming more power than others.

If we have enough energy storage to store excess power from renewables to be used during high points during the day then great, we can do away with base load power stations.

But all of the technologies for grid-scale power stages are still in the research and prototyping stage. And no, Lithium Ion batteries are NOT suitable for grid-scale storage because their capacity is effected too much by temperature variations and they can't be deep cycled (fully discharged and fully recharged).

So the result is we will need some form of base generation in the near term. This is why a lot of Europe has switched to Gas Generation. Because it produces much less pollutants than coal or oil burning (though only slightly less CO2) and they're much quicker to build, a year or two, than traditional nuclear power stations which take about a decade.

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago
[-] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Hydro is good when it's available but also has some significant problems. The biggest is that it's an ecological disaster even if the reach of that disaster is far more limited. The areas upstream of the dam flood while the ones downstream are in constant danger of flooding and drought. In the worst case if the dam collapses it can wipe entire towns off the map with little or no warning. It is objectively far more dangerous and damaging to the environment than any nuclear reactor. The only upside it has is that it's effectively infinitely renewable barring massive shifts in weather patterns or geology.

All of that is of course assuming that hydro is even an option. There's a very specific set of geological and weather features that must be present, so the locations you can power with hydro power without significant transport problems are limited.

It's certainly an option, and better than coal, oil, or gas, but still generally worse than nuclear.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

Hydro also creates methane releases as the flooded forests rot in the water.

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

Nuclear is also very expensive and takes a long time to build. Meanwhile the cost of solar reduced by almost 90% in the last decade.

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[-] [email protected] 49 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

As I suspected. Conservatism is the reason we can't have nice things. Again.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

What the fuck are you talking about? Did you even bother to read the article?

"The older activist generation deliberately rejected the mainstream expertise of the time, which then regarded centralised nuclear power as the future and mass deployment of distributed renewables as a pipe dream.

This earlier movement was instrumental in creating Germany’s Green Party—today the world’s most influential—which emerged in 1980 and first entered national government from 1998 to 2005 as junior partner to the Social Democrats. This “red-green” coalition banned new reactors, announced a shutdown of existing ones by 2022, and passed a raft of legislation supporting renewable energy.

That, in turn, turbocharged the national deployment of renewables, which ballooned from 6.3 percent of gross domestic electricity consumption in 2000 to 51.8 percent in 2023"

Ah yes, the arch-conservatives, the Greens and Social Democrats.

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[-] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago

IMO a lot of this had to do with Schroeder's and Merkel's connections with Russia and running the country's manufacturing base on cheap gas and oil.

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[-] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago

Surprisingly the title is not: Germany ditched coal and did went back to it.

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[-] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago

Predictions that the nuclear exit would leave Germany forced to use more coal and facing rising prices and supply problems, meanwhile, have not transpired. In March 2023—the month before the phaseout—the distribution of German electricity generation was 53 percent renewable, 25 percent coal, 17 percent gas, and 5 percent nuclear. In March 2024, it was 60 percent renewable, 24 percent coal, and 16 percent gas.

Overall, the past year has seen record renewable power production nationwide, a 60-year low in coal use, sizeable emissions cuts, and decreasing energy prices.

This is my biggest take away from this article.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

Yeah but if Germany hadn't been so anti-nuclear, by 2023 it could have been (for example) 53% renewable, 5% coal, 17% gas and 25% nuclear. Comparing the dying tail end of nuclear to just after it finally died is not useful.

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Missed opportunity to put solaire on the dinosaur.

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this post was submitted on 28 Apr 2024
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