this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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Forces had no direct confrontation with Hamas terrorists who killed hostages; 'The IDF and security forces are doing everything possible to bring all hostages home as quickly as possible. This news shakes us all,' says army spokesperson Hagari

Israeli forces discovered the bodies of six hostages in a 65-foot-deep tunnel in Rafah, approximately a kilometer from where hostage Farhan Alkadi was recently freed. The IDF had no precise intelligence on the hostages' location in recent months but knew there were captives in the sector, leading to a gradual and cautious operation in Rafah since the ground offensive began.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 months ago (9 children)

The hostages seem like the only bargaining chip they have (not that it's much of a bargaining chip), so I'm surprised they're doing it. Maybe they've decided that it isn't worth it.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Probably frustration and despair. If your bargaining chip can't get you a bargain, all they're worth is 'revenge' against your opponent.

What a fucked situation.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Thinking on it, it was probably also costing them what are now valuable resources to keep them alive. When it's near impossible to get in and out of Gaza, food, medicine, etc. are worth their weight in gold.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So instead of letting them free they murder them?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Why would they let them free when they consider them the enemy?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Because now they'll be pursued for the rest of their life. Free a hostage and you have essentially a get out of jail free card.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

There's a genocide on buddy. They already were.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

There wasn't a "genocide" on Oct 6th.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Just cause you weren't paying attention yet doesn't mean it wasn't happening.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Ahh so are you one of those "genocide is what I feel it is" folk or one of those "genocide is when the Jews are still alive" sort of folk?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Did you know there are Jewish palastinians? On top of that, Palestinians are semitic. You can't call racist when the group I'm defending is in the same racial group and contains religious Jewish folk. It ain't about being Jewish, it's about the fact I have seen palastinians getting shot in the street for literally my whole life. My whole life I'm hearing news every now and then how Israel overstepped again and ethnically cleanse an area of palastinians. How they kicked palastinians out of their home. I've seen videos of Israeli settlers kicking palastinians out of their home at gunpoint saying that the state sold them the house. It's a state doing a genocide. It isn't "the Jews" you fucking moron. It's the state of Israel. Interesting how you see Israel as being an ethnostate but don't see their removal of natives as genocide. But that's what happens when you don't think about your ideas longer than 5 seconds.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Did you know there are Jewish palastinians?

About 50% of Israeli Jews are descendants Arabs, Persians and North Africans who were forcibly relocated to Israel by the leaders of the Arab world or native to the region. Israel is a reservation, agreed to and established by Arabs as part of the agreement between their leaders and European leaders to overthrow the Ottoman Empire.

I've seen videos of Israeli settlers kicking palastinians out of their home at gunpoint saying that the state sold them the house. It's a state doing a genocide.

In the West Bank or the Gaza strip? Because there are no and have been no settlements in the Gaza Strip in a generation.

So again, is it a genocide because you feel like it or because they're Jews?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I ain't arguing. You are an evil motherfucker willing to justify a genocide. Ain't no convincing you. Ain't no convincing me. Your wrong and I hope one day your heart opens and sees it. Or at the very least I hope for your sake the afterlife contains no hell.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (10 children)

You're an ignorant person man. Your mistaking a war with a genocide. Hamas can end the conflict tomorrow by surrendering. A conflict they started by murdering, enslaving and raping undeniably innocent people.

If Hamas surrenders and the bombs keep falling nobody will be yelling genocide more than I. But equating incompetence on the part of Hamas's defense strategy and stubbornness on it's war goals with a genocide. Hamas' blind and overconfident aggression is the cause of theses deaths in Gaza. Being blind to that doesn't make you moral.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

If you don't have the resources to provide for your POWs, the correct solution is parole, not execution.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

How would you propose safely paroling them? There's already examples of released hostages then being killed by the IDF.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Any type of parole has to be at least marginally less dangerous for the hostage than execution.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Hamas are terrorists. They work through terror.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I put as much faith in this as I do the hospital tunnel story.

Anything the IDF says is to be treated as bunk without at least 2 corroborating sources. The IDF lies like they breathe, so I'm more willing to assume they killed the hostages to make Hamas look bad than anything they actually say.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's entirely possible this is total nonsense, but I could also see them realizing that keeping them alive was an exercise in futility and, as I suggested in another comment, a waste of precious resources like food.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Oh, don't get me wrong, it could maybe possibly be true. We're just getting it from a serial liar, so the message is untrustworthy on its face.

I'll be extremely saddened if I'm wrong here, because those people didn't deserve this. But given Israel's long history of blatant lies in the name of PR against anything Palestinian, I'm not going to believe it until a credible source backs up their statement.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

Israeli history isn't even a necessary consideration. The messaging of any warfighting party should always be taken with appropriate caution.

If someone is willing to wage war to achieve their goals, some propaganda efforts are certainly not out of the question. Factuality cannot really be confirmed until after the war is over, and the area becomes safe for neutral parties to visit. Active warzones are just not fountains of factual and verifiable reporting though.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Depending on how recently they were executed, it makes perfect sense. As the one holding hostages, you want to set the precedent that the only way to get them out alive is via negotiation.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago

They died recently enough for the bodies to be quickly identifiable. No DNA tests necessary or anything apparently.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Hamas is trying to keep as many alive as they can.

But (a) 2000 pound bunker busters don't discriminate between Palestinians and Israelis and (b) if the IDF comes too close to the hostages, their guards have to decide whether to let them go alive or to kill them.

In the case of the Druze guy, I can definitely see Hamas choosing not to kill him. But in cases of Israelis who also served in the IDF, the rational choice is to kill them instead of giving the IDF a propaganda win.

And finally, sometimes the IDF probably accidentally kills them and tries to blame Hamas if they can get away with it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

But in cases of Israelis who also served in the IDF, the rational choice is to kill them instead of giving the IDF a propaganda win.

This is a war crime. You can't execute POWs just because the enemy is getting close to the POW camp.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

They aren't combatants or PoW, taking them hostage was a human rights violation from the beginning.

But Israel can't really expect Hamas to follow Geneva conventions when they themselves violate it a hundreds times as often.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Is Hamas even that disciplined to act as a unified front? Management or soldiers on the site could've decided themselves to take a revenge on hostages. Especially if they knew they are cornered and there were no use of keeping them alive if they are deadmen too.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Based on accounts from hostages who have been freed, Hamas is at least more disciplined than the IDF

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Probably because they knew that rescue forces were coming, so they killed the hostages so that hopefully, they don't try to rescue more hostages.

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